Fiat 131 Abarth Gr 4

[Heini131]

its said that it is an original 

http://www.blocket.se/jonkoping/Rallybil_Fiat_131_Abarth_Gr_4_51317576.htm?ca=11&w=3

[mirafiori76]

What gave you that idea, Heini?

[Fiat 131 Abarth#2]

Ex Karoly Fiat 131 Abarth! 

[131rally]

Mike, dont you speak swedish? "En ?kta fabriksbil" mean "A real factorycar".

Ex-Karoly? You mean this is hungarian car? I thought this is ex-Kenya, the one which went through Moerenhout?

[Fiat 131 Abarth#2]

Mike, dont you speak swedish? "En ?kta fabriksbil" mean "A real factorycar".

Ex-Karoly? You mean this is hungarian car? I thought this is ex-Kenya, the one which went through Moerenhout?

http://www.131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?topic=5769.msg47212#msg47212

[mirafiori76]

  I don't speak Swedish no. And read that topic again. I already said it was from Moerenhout. This means there's not much Original to any car.

I watched the pictures very close and i don't see much Original parts which proves my point exactly. I was at Moerenhout's factory some years ago when this car was "restored"...

This might be a Kenia chassis. And i repeat, it might be. And that's it!

I could be wrong here. But there's only a small amount of originallity here.

[131rally]

I believe this is the Kenya car, sold from UK to Moerenhout. I didnt remember it went to Karoly, but it did go to Sweden. I dont know if it is a works car originally, but it has AR bodynumber. It might be Stradale, built to g.4 specs.  It was a lot more original when it left from Moerenhout. So it must be Karoly who took all works pieces away? Too bad cause it really had allmost all works parts in it.

[mirafiori76]

I'm not to fond of replying to this topic, but here i am. I'm Always a bit reserved when it's about these subjects concerned.
It's no secret that i have this real group 4 car and that i have a lot of knowledge of the originallity of the rally version. Over the years i have seen a lot of genuine cars, but i have also seen a lot of replica's. Even though they were made with lots and lots of Original parts.

I don't want to discuss the person Moerenhout here. I will leave him in his worth. If there's is anybody who wants to ask or tell me about him i will gladly respond through a PM.

But the featured car here is NOT a Kenia car. And i have pictures to prove it. I was with Moerenhout and my girlfriend took pictures of this very car with me beside it.

The car in these pictures has the steering wheel at the right side...

[131rally]

Mike, you have mixed your nuts and bolts   The right side driven car was the South African car. It was weird combination having steering wheel on right side and it had BMW LSD under it. It did have Abarth style dashboard etc. The Kenya cars have wheels on left side. I have pics from 2000 or so when they were offered for me to buy. I have been spending some sleepless nights with that, I would have got the original Kenya body for 2000? at the time, and I didnt buy. Few years later it was sold for 16000?, the badly rusty body only...

[mirafiori76]

Markko, you could be right. Perhaps i am mistaken. But nevertheless, the car shows less original parts.
It looks good though. 

[131 Lover]

Hi!
From what the Brothers told me its a Kenyia car, i don't remember the drivers name!

I am no expert on Abarths at all, but i think a lot of these Abarths where  crashed and rebuilt many times from rally to rally both from the works fiat and when fiat left the WRC with the 131 all other owners after that!

And all not serious dealers  who did bad restorations and robbed them of specific of parts just for Money makes it hard to say whos a real works or not!

I dont think that its many of these Abarths that looks like they did when fiat sold them new to rally in -76 they made updates continuously on them up to -81 from what i have read as an Abarth novis!

They did make 50 works and junked 3 of them in testing if i am right, they also made 350 Stradales that could be rebuilt to look like Gr4 cars, am i right or wrong?

Just my opinion, i am not starting any argument whose an Abarth or not!
cheers
Alf

[mirafiori76]

Hi Alf,

You are probably right. Altough some (works) cars are still Original. I counted 48 "works" cars, not 50 (yet). And i counted 380 Stradales.

No use starting an argument about anything, because nobody knows eactly how many were build and how many survived in any way. Fiat never kept numbers, therefor it's probably impossible to count exact numbers.

[131rally]

The amount of the works cars is a real mystery. Forexample the G-numbers, the last G-number I know is G43 (TOV 33681). I have 45 plates + Seat plates + USA plates in my files. The Seats propably were ex-works cars with TON/TOPetc plates originally, the another USA car was propably new, but the other I dont know. One of the problems are the very early cars. I dont have a slightest idea what happened to the early Red and White prototypes, did they update them to g.4 or not. How about the first Morocco cars, I havent seen the plates ever after, are they sent to some country dealer teams? Or exhanged the plates to some other straight after Morocco etc. On top of that, works team exhanged bodynumbers from a car to another. 50 works car is pretty close. +- 5 cars Also bodynumbers are quite weird. Many of the cars had AR 203 xxxx and AR 204 xxxx numbers. But there are three cars in my files with AR 205 xxxx. The most weird are the very latest cars having AR 038 xxxx numbers. You might think the numbers should be like AR 203 0001 to AR 203 0400. The AR 038 numbers, I think they might be off from the 400 series, brand new bodies made from mk2 bodyshells.  Sorry for the OT.

[Fiat 131 Abarth#2]

i don't know if its an original or an replica with some original parts!
but i think Karoly did copy some parts and he sold the next one for 98000.-
http://www.rally24.com/rally-cars-for-sale/fiat-abarth-131-34123.html
and i am also not sure if its original!
but it looks very good for me.

Enzo 

 

[simon131]

If an 'Abarth' of questionable originality can sell for 98,000 Euros I think I'll hold on to mine