Bosch electronic ignition & Magnecor leads

[TOAD]

Thoughts,

Mixture to rich for a hot engine.

Pore spark,   also check rotor arm resistor.

Is starter turning engine fast enough.

[beardy bloke]

I have some doubts over the starter as now and again it makes the clunking noise as though it is seized , but always then starts . I was going to replace last year but battery tuned out to be a fault , not high enough crank rate . If was to replace starter what would you suggest ?.
The mixture maybe a bit rich so I could try leaning out a bit . I had plugs out recently they weren't too bad so not sure if mixture is issue , but I suppose its an easy thing to try.
Relating to the mixture I would like to get more air in as this would improve the mix . At the moment I have a 9inch by 30mm speedograph air filter . This is obviously not correct or suffiecent , ideally I would like to fit correct air box , if anyone knows where to get one.
I put new rotor points and condenser in early last year .That was why I started this thread to see if electronic ignition might fix problem.
What do you think of fuel pressure lowering or float level in carb ?, to be fair problem has presented fairly consistently before carb service and with previous fuel pump , so not sure if this is relevant .
Not sure where to go next ?.

[POQ 131]

If was to replace starter what would you suggest ?.
[/quote
I suggest that you google something like: Fiat 124 131 gear reduction high torque starter.
See what you come up with.
I have one on my 131 & bloke, it cranks hard. A bit spendy, but the best thing.
O.

[TOAD]

Or borrow a few bits and do some swapping

Starter and earth connections. Check cranking current draw for the starter. I would have thought around 150/160 ish amps.

[Tas131]

I was wondering if float level might be too high as I have adjusted to make sure high flow passages are covered

What does this mean? The main jets draw from the bottom of the float bowl. Put the float level back to what it's supposed to be, simple to do, no cost and it's a proper base to start fault finding.

[TOAD]

I was wondering if float level might be too high as I have adjusted to make sure high flow passages are covered

What does this mean? The main jets draw from the bottom of the float bowl. Put the float level back to what it's supposed to be, simple to do, no cost and it's a proper base to start fault finding.

Absolutely TAS131       would get a very nice cold start as it would be rich, and a very pore Hoot start due to being over rich when worm.   Nicely spotted there TAS and even if its not the fix, its a good start as you say.   

[miro-1980]

HI Tas.


I understand the initial key problem is starting.

Have you checked the plugs for flooding?
   
Fuel pressure is very important and will effect both running as well as starting. It would seem you have  pump which is for fuel injected engines.

But so are the plugs, the points, the coil, the distributor, the condenser the leads, ....  this cam be done by checking if the spark looks good...   

First try to see if the problem is fuel or electricity related . You an eliminate electric as the problem by checking the spark all the way from the coil through the distributor and finally all plugs.  When you are at it, take the plugs out and see what color are the electrodes. This will either confirm or deny the problem is electrical.  (Though it seems to me to be fuel rather then electrical problem.) But do not guess - test !

The best tool to test if the engine is running on too rich mixture is Colortune http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?code=G4074
And it seems to be pump related ...

RE: fuel pump:

I strongly recommend Facet Red Top. I use it with two Weber 44 IDF,s and it works perfectly. It was recommended to me by Guy Croft and he was absolutely right. I use  a 124 spider fuel filter as used in the fuel injected engines (very fine!)

I will use the setup as well with my 124 spider when I install a new engine. These pumps are readily available in automotive stores. They were specially designed for carbureted engines and they do not require any pressure regulator at all.

RE: Starter:
Get a Gear Reduction Starter. There is no better ! I got mine from Allisons Automotive (http://www.allisonsautomotive.com/products.html)

RE : electronic ignition
I have a Magneti Marelli electronic ignition and have absolutely no problems. I also hear that the Bosch ignition is even better.

RE: fiddling with fuel level in the carbs : run the new  pump and make any adjustments if required.

             

[beardy bloke]

Thanks for all the advice guys . Just to clear up a few things the starting issue is only a problem when engine is hot and has been running for 30mins plus , and seems to start ok after a rest .
I tried to reset float to Haynes manual levels this resulting in the car overtopping with fuel . I have adjusted the float level through trial and error so carb runs very well , too low and it seemed to run out of puff anywhere .I am generally happy with how car drives and am getting around 32mpg so I do not think that I am burning too much fuel , however , I am open to the idea that it is running rich , I have a colourtune so will give that a go .
I am unclear how float level leads to the mixture being too rich?, can I not just adjust air/fuel mixture screw .
Electrically when I had the car first I replaced plugs, leads ,points , condenser rotor arm distributor cover and coil , but got them from local motor factors , I am now wondering if I should invest in more appropriate items for the engine from a specialist supplier ?, seen that someone like micks parts seems to carry a lot of 131 parts , can anyone recommend someone I should go to .
Plug electrodes seemed fine when I had them out a few weeks ago , any ideas would be a help , but really generally the engine is running very well , went round castle coombe with it a few weeks ago comment was that it sounded savage! , maybe your right too much fuel!.

[miro-1980]

We can come with many ideas but we do not see the engine and  know anything about its history, modifications etc. so 90% of the advise we will give you will be addressing a wrong issue.

The best and in my view only approach is to do the diagnosis by a step by step elimination process , going from the through the list (below).

1.Electric: timing, points, gap, condenser, coil, distributor, advance cables, plugs (adjust, clean, replace) Make sure you put in NEW PLUGS and a new condenser !!!)

2. Mechanics: check compression on all cylinders

3. Fuel:
a/ carburetor (clean, tighten all screws, adjust mixture, air blow all jets, etc.)        
b/ fuel pump: replace with Facet Red Top
c/ put new fuel filter

Of all these things are working fine the car must start. Just make sure that all electrical accessories including the lights are OFF.  

BTW remember that when the engine is hot and gives you problem starting you start with the gas pedal fully depressed - all the way to the floor !

Unless this is done systematically without skipping any single item the whole process logic will be compromised and you run the risk of a wrong conclusion.

Anybody who thinks there is any other is dead wrong.  
    
Miro

[beardy bloke]

Sorry I did not get back in touch sooner but the problem appears to be with the coil . I got a ht lead tester and no spark!.
As said previously I need to check through methodically rather than clutch at straws.
Thanks for the all the advice hopefully I will learn next time .
Going back to the start of the thread do magnecor make a standard set of leads for 131 1600t/c ? , I had a marelli distributor cover originally so assume that the distributor is also marelli . I put new distributor points and leads on 2 years ago but only from local motor factors , can anyone suggest where best to get original spares . The coil probably failed due to not being correct for the engine so I would like to eliminate this potential problem.