131mirafiori forum

Sorry for the Dumb questions, but I do not know what the difference between the "Super," "Sport," "Racing," "Mirafiori," "Super Mirafiori," etc for the 131. What I do know after reading the 131 History is that All 131's are mirafiori's. Its part of the name. But here in the US, the 131 stopped being the 131 in 1978. Then in 1979 untill fiat stopped importing them they were known as the Brava. So, I think the Mk 1 131 was never a Brava. All the Mk 1's have the side ways T tail lights and the regular glove box right? The Mk 2 had the rectangular tail lights and the cool glove box on the top of the dash with the 2 sliding panels. I do know that only the 1800 (pre 1978) and the 2000 (1979 on) were availible in the 131/Brava's to allow the cars to pass the US smog laws (you guys should see the engine bay of any 1979/80 california Fiat, they are a nightmare!!!! you cant even see the damn engine under all the smog lines and emission controls, ill send a pic).  So, can you guys shed some light on what makes what? I do know that fuel injection was standard in California in 1980, optional in the rest of the US, if that makes a difference. Cant wait to figure all this out and see what kind of 131/Brava i have! Thanks!

Gee - This is the kind of question that could be answered in 2/3 sentances or by using 1000 words - Maybe this is the time to write the second instalment of the 131 story!! ;)

I'll give it a go from my perspective and maybe some of the more informed guys can add what I leave out. The answer is confined to European Fiat 131 versions so excludes the Turkish, and Spanish (& current Ethiopian) iterations.

There were 3 series of the 131 ('74, '78 & '81). All used the same body shape(s) although no 2 door series 3s were made. The estate version (5 door) is aka the Panorama.

The series 1 made do with one extra moniker namely Mirafiori which persisted until the end of the car's production run. There were 2 versions, basic and S. The Abarth version (c400 examples) was a limited run in 1976/7. A small number were made later with series 2 rear lights.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/17462430_1.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/3d_1.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/3MA2007009.jpg)

When the series 2 came along the range expanded initially to L/CL & Super versions (hence Supermirafiori). This followed a Fiat tradition of making standard and Special versions of their cars (127/128/124/125/etc). I learnt just recently that L & CL may stand for Lusso and Comfort Lusso.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/IMGP0997.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Joe1800.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/SupermirafioriFinland1.41981600.jpg)

A little while later (and to capitalise on the rallying success of the Abarth version) a 2 door Sport version was introduced known as the Mirafiori Sport / Racing depending on the market. This had a 1995 carb engine along with sporty trim and visually stood out from the rest of the range. Aside from the Abarth, this is without doubt the most desirable version now that the car has achieved classic status. Diesel versions were also introduced in series 2.

The confusion betwen "Sport" & "Racing" is quite common and a few theories have been put forward. The most common is that UK (& Irish) insurance companies would load a car car named "Racing", and that "Sport" was considered more tame and insurance friendly. There is no difference between the two other than badging. The general opinion is that all European market cars are called Racing although in my humble opinion it was only the French & Italian markets that adopted this name (Happy to be contradicted on this one).? :)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/3MA2007035.jpg)

Series 3 consolidated the range back to 2 versions (CL & Super) again and 2 body styles - 4 & 5 doors. The Sport was dropped and replaced by a 2000 Supermirafiori (although in some people's eyes this was a poor substitute despite the loading of luxury items such as p/s, e/w, remote door mirrors and c/l.)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/49_12_s.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/untitled-2.jpg)

ENGINES

Engine sizes range from 1300 &1600 in series 1 (if you exclude the Abarth - 1995 cc 16v - Carb or FI).

Series 2 was 1300, 1600 to 2000 petrol and 2000 & 2500 diesel.

Series 3 was 1400, 1600 to 2000 petrol and 2000 & 2500 diesel.

There was neither a 1800 cc engine nor Fuel Injection in the European ranges. (Small exception is that FI was an option on the limited run Abarth model). Turbo charging was not available although very small numbers of a super-charged version in Series 2 Racing and Series 3 Super styles were made. These were called Volumetrico.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/5a54_3.jpg)

All Supermirafior/Sport/Racing/Abarth versions had Twin Cam engines.

REAR LIGHTS

The rear light configuration chronology is sideways T (Series 1), almost square (series 2) and finally rectangular (Series 3).

BODY STYLES

2 Door saloon (imaginatively described as a Coupe by some - Americans usually).

4 Door saloon

5 Door Estate/Wagon

2 Door Cabriolet (Ok... so thats a joke although I know of 2 conversions - One in pink by a member of Pink Floyd and the attached green one!)? :o

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/131SportCONVERTIBLE.jpg)

A pick up and Hearse have also been seen on the internet!? ::)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Fiat131PickUp.jpg)

A commercial van version was available called the Marengo.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Fiat_131_Marengo_Diesel_1-1.jpg)

SPECIAL EDITIONS

The forerunner to the production Abarth was called the Fiat 031 and had a Fiat 130 3.2 litre engine. There was also an 035 but I dont know much about it.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/035.jpg)

A limited run of Fiat 131 Sports was marketed in the German market - Called the Walter Rohrl after their world championship winning rally driver.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Grey131SportinAction.jpg)

There was a special version of the series 3 Panorama called the Maratea.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/index.jpg)

YOUR CAR

Your car does not seem to fit any of the Eurpoean range make up - It has the desirable 2 door body with series 2 rear lights (which in Europe could have been L/CL or Sport/Racing - All Supers were either 4 or 5 door versions). Like you say, it's likely to be a Fiat 131 Brava (or Super Brava?)...although the registration papers should give some guidance.

Here are some images of the US Brava brochure which may be of use to you.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Bravap7-1.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Brava4-1.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Brava3-1.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Brava2.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Brava1.jpg)

Having re-read your original question I can see that I've probably over-complicated the answer but it gives a good overview of the car's history which could be the basis for finishing an outstanding job on the website...that of recounting the 131 story.

Lastly, why does the car have 2 names - 131 and Mirafiori - Cos it's such a great car one wouldn't do....!? ;D ;D ;D

kev131, I am a member www.FordPinto.com and President and co-Founder of the Southern California Ford Pinto Owners Assoc. (In affiliation with www.FordPinto.com). In the Pinto world, there is a man by the handle known as Pintony. He is the guy that if you ask a question, you get an ANSWER. Not just a boring simple answer. A REAL answer. One that you enjoy reading and hearing about. An answer that you Copy and place on your iPod for reference in case some one at the next fiat run asks "Whats a Super Mirafiori?" Kev, your the man I have to thank when I explain it to them and look like I know everything. I think your reply should be added to the "About the 131." So I must say, Thank you. I am very suprised that the 1800 was not availible in Europe. That was the most popular version of the Lampredi engine in the U.S.. Oh by the way, I know its a bad photo, but my car is actually a 4 door. I wanted the 2 door, but I must say, those 2 extra doors make hauling friends about much easier....

7 and a half out of 10 Kev - Must try harder! ;D ;D ;D

I don't know why you've been waiting for me to prepare the second instalment of the 131 History when you (nearly) know it all anyway!! ;D ;D

A couple of points of clarification if I may ;)

'mirafiori' should always be written with a small/lower case 'm'. Not certain why - but it always appears to be by FIAT themselves.

The Series 1 estate/wagon was known as the Familiare and not the Panorama as Series 2 and 3 estates were known - hence FIATs model reference for the estate being '131 AF'.

I'm surprised that you have only just learnt what L and CL stand for! ::) ;D

In fact the Series 3 WAS made as a 2 door in Italy for the European market. I shall scan a picture and post it up as soon as I can. It was certainly made in CL form, possibly even Super, but I'll check.

The Racing and mirafiori Sport models, as you say, were identical. They used exactly the same engine that was used in the then current European spec 2000TC 132 - it even produced the same horse power (115) and shared the same gearbox ratios although the Sport has an Abarth remote shifter.

The Series 3 2000TC saloons were produced on the same line as the outgoing Series 2 Sport, and as such replaced it in mid to late 1981. It has been a bone of contention for years among 131 Sport owners, as many believe that their cars were produced upto the end of 1982 at least. They may well have been registered late '82, but as with Lancia and the Delta, FIAT produced many shells and stock piled them OUTSIDE in the northern Italian weather, before completing and shipping them for sale. :-\

I have a copy of the original 131 Sport press pack at home that actually states that the reason the car is called Sport and not Racing 'for right hand drive markets' is to placate the UK Insurance industry! :-\

There was also a difference in the engines used in the Euro spec cars for the lower range models.

Series 1 1300 and 1600 were all overhead valve, push rod engines (basic and Special trim) with the exception of the Abarth, which was a bespoke 2-litre 16-valve Twin Cam unit.

Series 2 1300 (L and CL) and 1600 (CL) were pushrod engines, with a 1600 Twin Cam in the Supermirafiori and 2000 Twin Cam in the Sport/Racing

Series 3 1400 (CL) and 1600 (CL) were overhead cam engines, similar to that used in the Strada and Regata. There were also 1400, 1600 and 2000 Twin Cam engines.

In general, the North American (Canada and US) spec cars were very different from their European counterparts. To understand why only 1800 and 2000 Twin Cam units were used just take a good look at the torque and horse power outputs! US regulations meant cleaner emissions which only the TCs could achieve with 'air' and later 'fuel injection'.

7.5 out of ten from SR? - That is praise from Ceaser!!!? ;D ;D ;)

Ya saw a brochure recently stating Lusso and Comfort Lusson - You've got to hand it to the Italians in those days calling the most spartanly equipped model a word that is supposed to conjure up impressions of luxury!!

Now about my marks for you - I cant give you 10 out 10. Even though your inaccuracy is about a 132 rather than a 131, as it appears on a 131 website I am going to have to mark you down. Sorry. The 132 with the 1995cc engine produced 112bhp according to Fiat themselves, I can't remember why the 131 Sport produces more - Different cams maybe..? ???

A series 3 in a 2 door??? This I gotta see cos I cant ever remember having seen one. I'm going reserve your points award until I see the evidence I'm afraid.

Pintopower - many thanks for your kind words but Simon Ryle is the biggest 131 Authority on the planet that I have come across - My response was always going to be better though, he cant post pictures on the website and a picture is worth a 1000 words.... ;D

I must have misunderstood which was your car - I thought it was the white car that you have provided a shot of from behind.? ???

A mistake about a 132 engine doesn't count does it ??? ;D ;D

I'll take your word for it Kev. ;) I know that the carbs for 2000 TC were Weber 34 ADF in the UK, but I think that the 131 Sport had different jets. It certainly gave the car greater responsiveness. ;D I once put a Sport carb on a 2000TC Super (series 3) and the car flew.? ;D Much quicker than with the standard set-up carb.

I've heard a rumour that the 131 Sport had 'hotter' cams than the 132 and 131 2000 Super - but I don't know for certain. I believe they had different dwell which meant that the valves are open for longer.

Who's this Ceaser bloke?? ??? and what did he stop doing?? (I thought it was Caesar(?) ;D ;D :D :D)

No Simon, I have to agree with Kevin here! The 132 engine (as fitted to the later 2 litre Supers) had 112bhp developed at 5600rpm while the Sport had 115bhp developed at 5800rpm. The difference was achieved by using different camshafts and different carburettor (or different jets in the same carburettor?). While the almost insignificant 3bhp difference would imply that the two engines were almost identical, they are very different in the way they produce their power and the way they drive with the Sport/Racing engine feeling much stronger and revving more freely while the 132 or Supermirafiori engine feels a lot more refined.

And while I have my anorak on, I would add that a major difference between the Series 1 and Series 2 cars was the interior. While Series 1 cars were fully designed in-house by Fiat, when it came to the Series 2 cars Fiat decided they wanted the 131 to go up-market (hence the change in name to L and CL emphasising the 'Luxury' of the cars) so they employed the services of Rodolfo Bonetto to design the interior of the cars and it was Rodolfo who came up with the idea of the twin glove-box with sliding doors on the top of the dashboard.

Rodolfo Bonetto was a freelance designer who worked a lot with Fiat, as well as Veglia Borletti, the instrument makers, and Autovox and Voxson. He also later styled the FIRE engine for Fiat  but his best known automotive work is his dashboards and he is responsible for a lot of Fiat and later Lancia dashboards like the original Y10 dashboard, the Regata dash, the Croma dash, and the dash form the original Ritmo/Strada Super.

Anorak off now and I better get back to work....

Theo said "The difference was achieved by using different camshafts and different carburettor (or different jets in the same carburettor?)."

I thought that's what I said ??? If it wasn't then it's certainly what I'm implying ;D :P

I wasn't going to mention Rodolfo Bonetto 'cos I thought we were being generic ;D ;) :D

If we're talking about him perhaps we should also be talking about Lampredi and Bertone ;D ;D ;D

Hello everyone,

concerning 2door 3rd series:
just a quick shot from my manual - but it should be evidence enough  ;D

the manual mentions 4D CL and Super as well as Estate, 2D only CL

regards,
Ren

Hey this is a fun topic - I certainly hadn't heard of the designer interior on series 2 and I suppose that's the only way such an ergonomic disaster of that glove box could have been passed - Bit like emperors clothes - No-one had the guts to point out that it was a retrograde step just because it had a fancy dan designer name! ???? ::) ::)

I'm gonna prove that my anorak is just as big as yours now with the statement that the Sport engine produces different BHP to the series 3 Super 2000 - The latter car produces 113bhp according to Fiat. Largely academic I suppose. The Fiat quoted top speeds for each car were 170/175/180 km/h for 132/Super/Sport.

Hi Rene - Thanks for that image - Although it wouldn't be the first misprint I've seen on Fiat documents - I'd still like to see the picture of the car!  ;) if only for my own education!

If the two door series 3 is a misprint - it was also misprinted in the English version too! ::)

Ok - what did both the Series 3 131 2000TC Supermirafiori and 132 2000 have in common, that was not common to the 131 Sport/Racing?

.....and it took power directly from the engine which would have reduced the engine output! (and I was told ages ago by a then current FIAT GB technical guy that it would have dropped the output of the engine by '2 or 3 bhp'!).

You've stirred up a hornets nest with the engine output topic Kev, so why not add to it with the top speed argument too ::)

It's a well known and documented fact that the 131 is actually faster in fourth gear than it was in fifth! So, does FIAT state which gear the car was tested in?

I think it was Motor Magazine who tested the 1978 1600TC (Series 2) Supermirafiori, and after four or five attempts in fifth found that the car was unable to get to within about 10 mph of FIAT's quoted top speed. When they contacted FIAT they were told that fifth gear was an overdrive and to try the test again in fourth. They did, and they acheived the quoted top speed, from their own measuring equipment rather than the cars (very optimistic!) speedo, but stated that "the rev counter was so far in the red as to be academic"!

I would also say that top speed is in no way a refection of the characteristic of an engine's/car's performance. Weight, aerodymanics, environmental temperature and pressure, gearbox and axle ratios also play a part. The 132 2000 was heavier than the 131 Super 2000 which was heavier than the 131 Sport. Also the Sport only has two doors - it's far more likely to be quicker than a four door saloon!

As for anorak Kev - are you at work getting the figures from memory? If so, you truly deserve to be the owner of the 131 Fact Anorak!!! Here, I'll take it off!! ;)

But nobody claimed that it did so your anorak sizing proof doesn't stand!

Wow, there is some detailed information! For what it's worth, the reasons I like the Mk2 Supers over the other versions are: a) The glovebox! b) The back lights. c) The side trims and d) The velour interior (early cars appear to have more, so are better). OK, I know that these features are shared with the Sport! While we are on the subject of variants, can anyone post up some pics of Mk2 Supermirafiori estate cars?

Who's this Ceaser bloke?? ??? and what did he stop doing?? (I thought it was Caesar(?) ;D ;D :D :D)

He's the one who made the salad dressing  ;D ;D

Now Now chaps - i do enjoy the friendly anorak rivalry  :D :D
Has anybody driven a 131 with the 1400 twin cam engine  ???
I just wondered how it performed .
And why was the 1800 twin never put into a uk 131??
My old 132 ES used to fly with the 18 twin -but did eat differentials for a living
a common problem as the 2 litre berlini my mate had suffered the same problem,
I know its 132s but still interesting to me - did the belini have an uprated 2 litre twin in it ???

keep throwing the 'I know more than you do's ' Its fabulous reading material  ;D ;D ;D

Been too busy at work today to get on line and respond again...

It's a scientifically proven fact that I know less than 10% of what Simon and Theo know about Fiats and 131s - This number is gleaned from numerous converstaions where I humbly listen to or read their latest stream of valuable information. Every now and again I find a slight discrepancy and like a starving hawk who hasn't seen food for weeks and lives miles from MacDonalds, I pounce on the merest opportunity to display my meagre knowledge!? :D

Hence my extraordinarily rude observation about Simon's claimed power output of a 132 2.0 and I suspect Theo's implication that the 131 Super had the same engine.

"The 132 engine (as fitted to the later 2 litre Supers)"

Fiat claim a different power output of 113 compared with 112 so it would indicate some difference although it could be rounding - Down in the case of the 132 and up in the case of the 131. I sense though that there will be a technical response in the face of which I will be powerless to resist - Let's see.? ??? ;)

Simon - Thank you for crediting me with zero nouse on your top speed discourse. Of course, lots of different factors come into play here - I was simply pointing out that according to Fiat (no doubt they used the optimum gear to test the claim with) the relativity of the top speeds corresponded with the power outputs - Of course this proved nothing but it gave me the opportunity to show off my tiny knowledge again!! :D ;D

Glad everyone else is enjoying the debate and pretend rivalry - Every now and again a topic can call much latent forum energy to the surface.. so credit to Pintopower!? ;) Yeeeaaaa!

Si - You asked what do the 132/131 Super have that the Sport does not. 4 doors for one but I guess you are referring to Power Steering? Not sure what point you were making as Theo seems to have pointed out the mechanical reason in the engine....Can you clarify? ???

Oh yes - not sure if the questions abour Caeser are tongue in cheek but the full phrase is :

"Praise from Caeser is praise indeed" by which I meant 7.5 out of 10 from Caeser (Si) is praise worth having - Only cos he knows so bloody much about 131s!  ;D ;D ;D ;)

Hello all you 131 nutters, never have I been entertained so much by one question, one thing you must all do is please stop calling yourselves anoraks, for all of you have super seeded that you have all become Trench coats, how can one question warrant so much replying, and you men say that us women can talk, or in this case write, its a good job were not back at Killarney or we would be up all night debating, ( well you all would), ok guys Iwill stop taking the bung of you and just remind you all that you are all welcome down on the 1st/2nd September with your precious 131's at our place, lunch will be provided, thank you Simon and Theo for your postive replys, if any of you need an overnight stay should you want to come and will be travelling a fair distance let us know.

Your much entertained 131 widow

Anita xx
 :)

Now I see how I caused the confusion! By later 2 litre Supers I meant the Series 2 Supers that superceded the 1600 Supers. I wasn't refering to Series 3 cars as I know little about those!

Surely all 2 litre Supers were Mk 3's? On the point of power etc, the power steering on a Mk 3 Supermirafiori would probably rob the 2-3 BHP, hence the difference in the power figures between the 132, Sport and 132 Supermirafiori 2 litre.

Hi Theo - "Series 2 Supers that superceded the 1600 Supers?" ????

Supers began at Series 2. They had 1300TC , 1600TC (& 2500D) engines - No changes during the production cycle of series 2 as far as I am aware.

Series 3 Supers had 1400TC, 1600TC, 2000TC (&2500D)engines - Again no changes as far as I can remember.

Anyway what this does all mean is that it's time to write chapter 2 which I think I''ll finally have a go at and circulate for corrections and additions.

Anita - Did you really read all of this topic? If you did you are a bigger fan that you are letting on! ?;)

just to add some technical info (the Facts) the difference is mainly in the head of a sport and a super, cam duration was longer in a sport and also valve guides are 1mm fatter for heat disapation due to higher stress on the engine. But as regards the sport-racing debate why were so many other models sold on the continent as sport models and racing was only used for the 131 : :))

Hi Redx - Do you mean so many other "FIAT" models were sold as Sport? By that you mean 127, 850, 124, 128 - Cant think of any others off hand.... ???

Maybe "Racing" was used for the 131 because it had been so successful in the world of Racing (ie rallying). The other sporty Fiat versions did not have the same heritage.

Good question though - hadn't considered that angle before.  ;)

Yes, I admit my mistake here and you are of course both right! I've been corrected on this before by Simon but my Anorak must have fallen off or my senility has taken over!


Now with anorak firmly back on I should mention that there was another Series 2 and Series 3 variant which is the 2 litre (1995cc) diesel producing 60bhp at 4400rpm as opposed to the 2.5 litre (2445cc) which produced 72bhp at 4200rpm.

Damn, leave it to the Americans to start a war! Sorry I brought this up!! Ha!! Ok, here are a few more shots of my 131/Brava. I am still confused. So, guys, let me get this straight...since my car has the 2000 motor in it, it would be known as a 4 door Racing/Sport? Kev, I know you mentioned that it would be a Super, but then later I read that the supers dont have 2000 motors right? OR, its it just a detuned, 80 HP, automatic, US-Spec, Smog controlled Brava, and nothing more?  :-[
I have added pictures of the motor. The carb is off getting rebuilt. I thought you all would like to laugh at the crap that is poorly attached to my motor. On a plus side, it is getting de-smogged soon. Dont ask how.... ;)
Kev131, The registration papers in California dont say anything. All it calls the car is a Fiat 4door Sedan.

Check out that SWEET smog line bank!! You should see all the vacuum ports on the carb. It looks like a spider!

Here is what the back of the car says. I would rather call it what you guys get to! Sport, Racing, mirafiori, Super, its all so much better than

FIAT 2 Litre (and every american car guy mentions that Litre is not spelled correctly, I mean come on, I know we spell it Liter, but the world does not exist between the Pacific ocean and the Atlantic) BRAVA

Oh, and do any Euro models have this Grille?

Right, let's start at the beginning ;D

My comments regarding Ceaser and Caesar Kev relates only to the way in which you mis-spelt it ;D 'Ceaser - someone who ceases something?' ;D

Pintopower - to go some way to answer your question. As I said before the US spec cars were VERY different to anything we had in Europe in terms of trim, name and engine capacity. Your car is not a Sport or Racing - it is just a FIAT 2-litre Brava.

Coupled to the car's age, the word Brava on it's own defines the trim (although there may have been options - velour or tartan) and engine capacity on US cars, which is almost identical in your car to the Series 2 1600TC Supermirafiori European cars. So, a 1979 Brava has to be a 2-litre (and all 2-litre FIAT engines of this period were Twin Cam, with or without anti-smog).

A name is just a name. In FIAT terms check out the chassis number and FIAT model type. It will either be something like ZFA131***** or 131A****. This is enough to confirm that the Brava is a true 131 and continues the lineage.

The closest thing (although by no means identical) to your car in European terms would be a Series 2 Supermirafiori that had the original factory 1600TC replaced with a 2000TC (along with a million trim changes and rectangular headlights). For European markets the series 2 Super was not fitted with a 2000TC, only a 1600TC, but as I have said - US cars were VERY different to their European counterparts - and in short, there is no direct European equivalent.

What's worth bearing in mind here is that the 2000TC US spec (strangled) engine produced 80bhp, whilst the European 1600TC pushed out 96bhp! Hence, no need for a bigger, and therefore less economical engine in Europe. Besides, petrol/gasoline is far cheaper in the US so FIAT didn't need to worry so much about good mpg figures.

The grille on your car appears to be identical to that used on the Series 3 2500 diesel Super models in Europe.

Hope this helps. ;D

Im still enjoying the war  ;D ;D
But as for the 1400 twin - has anyone driven one  ??? ???

Hi Curt,

Sorry mate, no, I haven't driven a 1400TC although they were popular in mainland Europe. I've seen plenty in France and Germany, but never driven one.

I don't know whether anyone else has though :-\

Wow..i certainly got some really useful information in this little 'war' of you guys here..:p

God don't you lot go on .... :-\the 132 and super had power steering so sapping 2-3 bhp... oboviuos really. the first answer to his question was great well done  :D

Well, I'll continue to "go on" and ask the question: do manufacturers when measuring and subsequently quoting engine power include the ancillaries? Engine power output is quoted for the engine alone and not as fitted to the car so a new engine when measured will not have the power steering rack fitted and therefore not have the loss.

Dunno. More food for thought tho ;)

Were any 131s fitted with air con that might have dragged horse power - but then when its actually compressing it would really kill the HP output but as you say are the engines measured with ancilliaries or not  ??? ???
I would think not  ??? ???

Mine is fitted with air cond and it seriously drags my HP and my fuel!! So most of the time its 'natural air-cond' for me. But during day time it reaches up to 38' celcius. And its freaking hot!

on a bench test the horse power will be given from an engine which will only have the water pump and altenator running on it and this is the power qouted by the manufacturers and with the altenator it will need to put approx 30 amps for it to absorb 1 horsepower :)

That's what I thought (but wasn't 100% sure). So loss due to power steering is not an issue here!

Is BHP not a measurement with the ancilliaries taken into account? I thought this was the case. HP is the engines output without these. For example when Ford fitted the 2 litre pinto engine into the RS2000 they claimed an extra 2 BHP over the Cortina's engine as the RS2000 was fitted with an electric cooling fan.

As already stated above


So presumably the Cortina fan was mounted on the end of the water pump and was in place in the bhp measurements while it didn't have to be when the engine was going into an RS2000.

But other ancillaries like power steering and air conditioning that connect to devices fitted to the car and not just the engine  will not be included in any measurements. Even if the power steering pump is fitted, it will not be in play as the power steering rack will not be present. In any case, one should NEVER run a power steering pump without fluid going through it (i.e. connected to the rack and full of oil) as the pumps get damaged very quickly if run dry.

Hey guys, Simon131 mentioned that there were "along with a million trim changes" on the US models. What where the changes? I imagine color and interior color are the most obvious. What colors were offered in Europe? Of the Brochures I have, all I have ever seen was White, Silver, Cream, and Light Metallic Blue. As for interiors, I have seen Black and blue. I also know that seats either came with a bizzare plaid material, velour, or leather. There was also a sunroof and A/C offered, plus all "Bravas" in the US (I dont know about actual 131's) had power steering. Was there an Automatic offered? Mine has one. It is a General Motors unit. I am sorry about all the questions, but I just want to know what the differences were. I have a US Spec. Strada, and I have been trying for the past year to get all the Euro Parts for it. The Strada got much more of a cosmetic change (and a bad one at that) than the 131 did.

This is not a simple answer to give pintopower ;D

To answer the questions about colour and trim it might be best for you to surf onto ebay.co.uk and purchase a few brochures which (as long as you buy the correct edition ;D) will have this info inside the back cover.

We had all sorts of colours - from a metallic salmon pink colour to silver, through pale yellow and 'old orange', dark red and azzure blue (code 613 - my personal favourite for the series 3 Super!). Trim was cloth for the lower end models and velour for the Sport/Racing and Supermirafioris. Leather was not available in the UK, although I believe the Spanish built SEAT 131 Diplomatic, akin to FIAT's Super, had it.

Sunroofs were available on certain of the 131s as factory options, (Series 2 1600TC Super for example) and only some markets in Europe were offered air conditioning - but not the UK. The only European spec cars to be offered with power steering were the Series 3 Supermirafioris (petrol and diesel).

Yes, automatic gearboxes were available for the 131, but again generally only on the 1600 (Series 1 ohv and 2 ohv and TC). I don't think any Series 3 Supers were automatic, but the 1600 ohc CL certainly was - I've got one! ;D

All 131 automatic gearboxes were 3 speed GM units. This is because FIAT made (and indeed still makes) diesel engines for GM (in Europe and South America) and there was a reciprocal deal.

I hope this helps. ;D

pintopower - reading your note/questions above again - it would appear that the Brava was very much akin to the the European spec 132. In the UK at least the post-1978 132 2000TC was fitted almost exclusively with an automatic gearbox and had power steering as standard, but it also had electric front windows.

At the time, the 132 was the top of the range for FIAT, so perhaps the Brava filled that position in the US?

simon131 - From some advertisements I have seen, Fiat USA was comparing the 131 Brava to the BMW 3 Series of the same era. I do not know what the 131 was sold as in Europe, wheather it was a upper class car or a middle class car. Fiat, it seemed, tried to hype up the 131/Brava in the US to make it more of a distinguished car as opposed to a run of the mill Ford Fairmont or Chevrolet Malibu. Also, It seems yellow and green were availible in the US as well for the 131.

Unfortunately, certainly here in the UK, the 131 was aimed at 'Middle England'. Most of the roadtests of the time pitched the 131 1600TC fairly and squarely against the Ford Cortina Mk IV, British Leyland's Triumph Dolomite and the Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1.

In many cases the 1600TC 131 was pitched against a 2 litre opponent - and still beat it! :D (Naturally).

FIAT's advertising literature of the day tried to aim the more luxurious 131s (Supermirafioris particularly) at the up and coming executive types - but whether or not they succeeded is another matter! ;D

I think I have read one road test where the 131 was pitched against BMWs 320, but I can't remember the details. It may have been just the advert you have already posted.

The 132 was aimed at the top end of the market and was supposed to fill the gap left by the huge and wonderfully barge like 130 - which in my opinion it couldn't. The 130 had a large 2800cc or 3200cc six-cylinder engine, usually mated to a 3 speed auto (although some manuals were sold) and compared to the 132, the 130 was a much larger car in virtually every dimension!

The 130 was a unique car really and replaced the six-cylinder 2300. The 132 replaced the 125 and the 131 replaced the 124, so the 131 was a much more 'utilitarian' vehicle. It was only after the model's first facelift (after the 124 Sport Coupe was discontinued) that the 131 started to gain a 'sporting and luxurious' character tag (with the introduction of the Super and Sport models) - but the car was never seen as the top of the range model in Europe.

As I understand it the 132 was never imported to the USA by FIAT was it. Also, FIAT North America carried out several modifications to cars for the US and Canadian markets - most notably the Turbo fitment to the Spider 2000 - so perhaps it was them who were responsible for the leather interiors, etc. ???

I remember seeing the Fiat versus BMW adverts in the USA and being rather surprised by them. As Simon says, the Fiat flagship of the era which was the 132 was not sold in the USA so the 131 was the top of the range car for Fiat in USA. It's not as strange as it sounds though because the USA spec 131s were more up-market cars than the European versions. The OHV engines were never offered in the USA and Twin-Cams were always fitted to the USA spec 131s from the Series 1. USA cars also had more up-market interiors with different materials used and also had air conditioning and automatic gearboxes.

In the pressrelease of the Racing stands: The modelname Racing has to remember us at the Mirafiori Abarth, the world rally champion.

Officially is said about the difference in power with the 132-2000 of 3HP the following: Reasons for the higher performance are o.a. a new airfilter and a different exhaust(system). Though I'm sure there are different cams too.

The series 3 2000TC was for sure deliverable with an automatic transmission! It was in Holland on special delivery on the 4 door models, so in Holland not on the Panorama. A guy at my school had 1, it had the identificationshields at the side with 2000TC and immediately under smaller automatica. When my memory is real also with climatizzata but about that I'm not sure.

The Racing was for sure deliverable with an airconditioning!

To be continued...

Hello again. 

To show that the 131 Racing was on the market with a factory airconditioning unit I will put our latest buy in Introductions this weekend, Yes a Racing with fridge!

The 131 Racing/ Sport was badged everywhere Racing except 4 markets: Ireland, Great Brittain, Germany and Austria. Yes, for insurance reasons. Except that badge there is ZERO difference.

Anyway does anyone know what happen to the blue (not green )
convertable on the first page, i was offered this when we ,theo and others at bromley
in the early 90's ,looking tatty and with out an engine for ?100 after laughing and walking away, i startted thinking!!!! but lost him in the crowd .years later found it on a webbsite with the owners other american cars, his only fiat..
but with all that extra streanthening in the floor and body it could have stood the test of time alittle better , and that was the photo i was shown back then,
whot happen to it?????? :-\

 ;) Came by this very, very old topic and enjoyed reading it completely. At first there was a question why the 131 also has a name. Since i haven't found the answer anywhere on the forum and it seems that nobody knows the answer (correct me if i am wrong perhaps i can shine a light on this matter. This is the true story. :o
Back in 1974 when the 131 was designed and produced Fiat used no names but numbers for their models; 126 to 133, with exception of a model called 129. The family car was called 131. But it also got the name mirafiori, spelled with a small "m". The reason is this. Because of all kinds of troubles, especially with employees, Fiat decided to contribute the car to the factory and its co-workers. But, because it was a type of model with a number the name added was in small letters.
The 131 therefor is the only car ever with a model number AND a name.
Oh, guess what the co-workers did in reply? Right, they went on strike  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D