131mirafiori forum

I'm wondering what's going on with this engine?

I thought it was the power steering componentry... but it looks different from other versions I've seen - It's a 1984 2000 TC series 3 by the way.

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/FishingTrip300711014.jpg)

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/FishingTrip300711011.jpg)

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/FishingTrip300711013.jpg)

Beats me unless it's some kind of preheater for cold climates?

i would say its part of the emision kit, egr valve carbon filters, my series one had all that stuff that i imported from the states.

i have picture some where of the layout try and dig out.

Good spot. Useless junk then ;)

So maybe a few more horses would be released if it was removed...? ;)

What are the twin metal tubes over the motorhead? I can't understand where do they fit over the engine.

There are small holes in the exhaust ports that come up to a channel running along the top of the head. The pipes screw into that channel and the large canisters are reed valves. It was all part of an exhaust gas recycling system to reduce emissions.

Do you think it is removable Mick?

Yes you can pull it all off, but you'll need some blanking plugs to screw in to the head. I'll post a photo of mine if I can track down the camera.

Mick is right,
 we had the emission control here in sweden in -83 but they changed to the kind you shown in the pics in the later models, we also had an EGR valve ,i can see that it sat on the right side of the intake manifold on that little knob!

But i cant se any in your pics, here the EGRs where full of exhaust stuff and broke down and later was a perfect place to suck in air in the wrong place, made the engine to run a bit strange!

Just as Mick say put blanking plugs in  the holes in the head and change the exhaust manifolde for an older one, Rip the rest off!

Regards Alf

Thanks a lot Alf - Do you think that the system reduced the engine power?

I wonder is any data on resultant emmssion reductions (or revised Co2 outputs)available from Swedish spec cars...?

The 'extra' stuff certainly seem like emission reducing equipment. While it is relatively easy to remove them and to plug the holes, you will not necessarily regain the lost engine power. Some low emission engines had reduced compression ratios and differently 'mapped' ignition (i.e. different distributors - some with vacuum advance) to cope with the reduced octane fuel which could be as low as 88 octane in some countries. Do you know which country the car is from originally?

No I don't Theo although it doesn't have US spec bumpers or speedo - Speedo is in kms and it's a LHD. Interesting extra comments though....

Kevin,

Where did you get it from? I mean, what country?

In fact, looking at the first photo again, this engine is fitted with a vacuum advance distributor but the vacuum advance pipe is not connected! So I'd say this engine is not running well and must be down in power. Plus is it normal for S3 131s to have a distributor fitted to the head? Should it not be in the block? And where's the windscreen washer bottle?

Could it be that components were used from the American Pininfarina 124 Spider?

It's not my car Mike - But I'm looking at it.

Theo - Any views on whether there could be long term damage to the engine from the installation as it looks...? I did drive it and it didn't seem particularly quick....but not too sluggish either.

On the later S3s the washer bottle and radiator expansion tank are a single square edged unit with separate reservoirs - Mounted behind the grill.

No I don't think there'll be any damage at all. That's how the low emission engines came from Fiat anyway. But don't expect it to get quicker by simply taking off the 'extra' pipework. It will take a complete engine rebuild to Euro-spec to gain back the 'missing' power and unfortunately that kind of engine rebuild doesn't come cheap! On the other hand, this might be a Euro-spec engine and just by connecting the vacuum advance pipe you'll get back all the missing horsepower! That'll be a nice cheap fix!  ;D


Of course they are, I remember now and I can see it in the photo  :-\

I love things like this!  ;D

Kev, the washer bottle was only integrated into the expansion bottle on certain of the series 3 TCs as both my Dec 82 (XPE613Y) and my brother's Jan 82 (PBL712X) 2000 series 3 Supers had separate bottles like the earlier cars. It was probably a later mod. ???

Theo, some series 3 TC engines had the dizzy mounted on the exhaust cam as there was no room in the usual block position as access was limited due to either a Supercharger (as the Volumetrico) or air conditioning pump. Also, some markets (particularly the USA but also some other markets) had an air injection pump mounted on the inlet side of the engine which also meant that access to a block dizzy was almost impossible.

I doubt that there would be any long term damage to the engine as the kits looks like a factory fitment. My 1976 124 CS1 Spider had it's emission kit removed without any ill effects - had the "two sets of points" dizzy fitted, which ran like clockwork once I fitted electronic ignition ;D :D. The engine pictured already has electronic ignition as it's a 2000 so no such issues. 8)

I assume this engine runs on unleaded, which would probably mean it's a 'low compression' unit in any case.

Yes I knew that  ;) and I've had a good look at both Graham's and Albert's Volumetricos both of which have a head mounted dizzy. But this car is not a Volumetrico so the head mounted dizzy makes it seem like a USA spec engine. I know the USA 1800 twincams in the 131s had a head mounted dizzy  :-\

The USA did not get the Series 3 131, but they did get the Series 2 Supermirafiori/Super Brava with the 132 2000 unit  ;D This is a 1984 Series 3 131 2000 TC ergo is cannot be from the USA. :o ;D

And it's LHD so it cannot be Australian either. ???

The plot thickens......... 8)

But I thought we are considering the possibility that this car didn't come with this engine originally.  I think we need to know where the car is and where it came from to make some more educated guesses.

I don't think it's the wrong engine but it's definitely the wrong air filter box for a 1984 131 Super. It should be fitted with the later air box (which automatically thermostatically regulates whether to draw in fresh air or pre-heated air) with the long cold air intake that reaches forward and has the longer paper consatina warm air 'hose' which runs around the front of the engine between the radiator and water pump, and connects to the 'flange' that faces forward above the exhaust manifold. The air box currently fitted is of the earlier type which should have the shorter paper air hose running across the top of the cams into a different housing above the exhaust manifold - hence the wrong looking kinked paper 'hose' on this car as it is correct for the engine and not the air box.

Still don't think it's a US spec 124 Spider lump - but not so sure now ???. If you were changing the engine surely you'd remove the emission kit. ???

Hi!
 since we did not get any -84 to Sweden i dont know about this car that you show specific, but the vacum advance can be an aftermarket distrubutor, i havent seen any here with vacumadvance!

The power output is the same,110bhp on the paper, at least here even with the emission on,its when its to old it starts to suck air from all airhoses and EGR valve its getting astmatic!
These emissions is just to block in the head and throw the rest away,i cant see the exhaust manifold,it can take exhaust from there instead of inside the head,just take an older exhaustmanifold and then it works fine!

I can try to get a pic of a 131 2000tc from -83 so you can se how it was delivered new here!
Here you can see the 2 part bottle next to the radiator and the distrubutor on the head!
If someone is intressted in a drawing of the emission system ,i can take a pic of it and bring it here?

All 2 litre 131s in OZ had cam mounted electronic ignition. We got a sort of series 2.5, with some series 2 stuff and some series 3, some had the washer bottle and coolant bottle beside the radiator, although later versions had 2 separate bottles and a wider twin fan radiator. Some OZ motors had "Aust" stamped in red on the side of the inlet cam box.

I had removed the same exhaust gas recirculation system from a VX Argenta.
It was from Switzerland i hope.

Thanks for that - Any difficulties in removing the components and more importantly, was it worth the effort in improved performance, reliability, emmissions, etc  :)

Well the thing is, i just removed it from the engine to see what it really is. The car was not runing for long time and i didn?t run it after either. The VX part was missing. I "saved" it from a garden where it had stayed some years, left without interest.

So cannot really answer your question. But from a mechanic point of view i agree with blinding it with bolts or rather welding the holes in the manifold and it should run just better without added exhausted gases in the inlet instead of fresh air.

here is the pic

Yes that looks the same all right - Thanks for the comments.  :)

yes i think so too, in the channell between cams are two holes to water ways ,or oilways one blanked off nomaly and the other  a sender .
 no other access to inlet .?
 is this yours  kev, an other one
 

Just thought I'd resurrect this subject with the latest position...

As the forum knows this is indeed mine and driven home from Switzerland in July. It's a nice original late example but needs a lot of work to have it like I want. It's currently undergoing a lot of mechanical changes - Mostly component replacements in order to make it a reliable and comfortable companion on long 3MA trips - There are two especially long dstance ones coming up in the next two years. :)

Anyway, back to the engine the emissions stuff is now all gone although it wasn't possible to fit a more conventional exhaust manifold. I forget the reason why....Anyway this is what the engine currently looks like and sporting it's shiny new radiator from Yagmur.  :)

A small bit of extra information that I think is fairly correct came to light last night and prompted me to update this thread. Another Swiss S3 2.0 has appeared for sale (details posted in the For Sale section) and it appears to have a similar system fitted. According to the Italian 131 site this was standard for the Swiss market...so maybe there is no US spec connection at all for my car..? I think Alf mentioned earlier that the Swedish BHP was 110 (down from 113). This seems to link in with the fact that the Ritmo Abarth 130TC was actually called a 125TC in Switz alone...maybe because of additional emmissions equipment on that model too.  :)

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/P1180999.jpg)

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/P1190001.jpg)

Looks fantastic ;)

The exhaust cam already has the dizzy drive for those IDF's  ;D ;D

Nice an clean, exactly how I like it  :) ;D ;)

Very good job your would never know they were on the engine :) I like the new grille and the new shock top mounts too :)

Chris - You should have been a detective - Top marks for observation!  ;)

I know ;D am almost as good as Miss Marple , I don't miss much ;D

After removing all that emisions junk is it any more powerful do you think?

I've not driven it yet Dave but with all the other work done to it that's one experience I'm especially looking forward to... :) I'll let you think know....