131mirafiori forum

Have scanned in this diagram to show the timing marks on a twin cam engine. Don't forget to line up the oil pump pulley wheel!

(http://media3.dropshots.com/photos/105899/20080325/b_221502.jpg)

The crankshaft pulley needs to be removed to change the belt (although Jason claimed he could do it without removing the pulley  :-\) There's a timing mark on the crankshaft cogged wheel that needs to be lined up with the mark on the crankcase. The marks can be seen in the photo below:

(http://www.131mirafiori.com/images/DSC01985.JPG)

It is a bit of a squeeze but you do not need to remove the crank pulley. At least not on my engine  ;D

Thanks for posting this up it is to help our Panorama owning member in the Ukraine.

Just checked my Haynes manual. Does not tell you to remove the crank pulley. ;)

I've never had to remove the crank pulley either  ;)

I really can't see how you can change the belt without removing the crank fanbelt pulley  ??? In all twin cams that I've changed belts, there's not enough room between the pulley and the sump to get the belt through without squeezing, bending  or stressing the belt. Plus there's the metal 'guide' next to the crankshaft cogged pulley as can be seen in the photo above. To get the belt behind the crank fanbelt pulley and onto the cogged pulley, you'll have to feed it in at 90 degrees to the cogged wheel and then bend the belt into place; not a good thing to do to a cambelt  :-\ Plus if you don't remove the fanbelt crank pulley, you can't see the crankshaft timing marks; the mark on the fanbelt pulley is for timing the ignition to the marks on the belt cover and the cover must be removed to change the belt.

I think you'll find that we never said that it wasn't better to remove the pulley, just that we don't ;) It often takes longer to get the nut holding the pulley off than it does to change the belt and get the car restarted ::).

Yes, the belt needs a little manipulation, but I've never had to bend it to the point of thinking that it would cause undue stress to it. Blimey Theo, you know how paranoid I am about timing belts and their replacement :P

Luckily, I've never had a cam belt strip or snap on a TC engine (although I had one strip on a 128 1300) so when I have removed the belt I've always done it with all of the marks already lined up 8)

Dear Dave,

Thank you very much for your help and spending time helping me and my Panorama)) Hope the engine will work tomorrow or even today!!!!!

best regards and every sucsses,
Bohdan(131 panorama owner)

hello guys,

I noticed that my engine a bit different from yours. anyway some parts are the same))) please chech on pictures that i will download now if i lined up the marks properly.... is everything is ok or i should change smth???

Best regards

did the marks line up correctly?

Hi Bohdan,

Looks like you engine is the 'simpler' OHV (Over Head Valve) style of engine, as used in the likes of the series 1 cars and Series 2 L's and CL's 8)

It looks to me as though the marks are in the correct place ;) I hope it all works well.

Simon

Yes that's an OHV engine and the timing marks seem aligned correctly.   ;)

Theo was scanning through some of my old workshop manuals for the 131's and you auxillary pulley is 1 tooth advanced as I checked it with the Fiat tool on another engine to make sure ;) ;)

I think I see what you mean  ??? In the photo of my engine the mark on the pulley's face looks at a different position than in the photo of Bohdan's OVH engine. But I am sure I would have lined up the marks when I did it. In any case, the auxiliary shaft 'timing' is not at all important in the twin cam engine. The Haynes manual says "make sure the hole in the pulley is pointing towards the tensioner spring bolt" (or words to that effect). If the auxiliary shaft, which is actually a camshaft from an OHV engine complete with lobes, is 180 degrees out then the lobes will hit the conrods but being slightly or even quite a long way out won't make much difference.

Be wary of the "haynes book" the drilling on the aux pulley should be under to the right hand side of the m8*1.25 bolt on the tensioner as the fuel pump timing being incorrect can destroy the block on a twincam, this is one of there only weak spots known to man ;) ;)

That's OK then as I haven't got a mechanical fuel pump in the block but have an electric pump in the boot (which I had to change recently - see  post at http://131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?topic=736.0).

(http://www.131mirafiori.com/images/fuel_pump/3.JPG)

Orange??

Once upon a time....  ;D

Theo,
re: 'Orange!
does that make  you an honary memeber of the 'Orange Boys!!!' i do think so.
Your most welcome ;D
Steve

Theo whats the grey colour code? is there many variants? will be painting mine that colour, Sid.
ps thought all the orange cars had the black interior or did you retrim?

Colour code is 628. There are no variants. In the UK originally only 3 colours were available, Orange, Silver and (Gunmetal) Grey. They all had black interiors (although it looks more brown than black) with the red interior (looks more orange) an option on the Grey cars only.

(http://131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=665.0;id=535;image)

No I didn't retrim; the trim lasts a lot longer than the bodywork so the car was reshelled! When the car was restored by the previous owner (1995 I think), he used a good shell from an Orange 131 Sport, new front wings, new doors, new bonnet and boot lid and the front scuttle from a white car. It all went together quite well and while the door shuts are painted properly the inside of the boot and the engine compartment were not so there's still a lot of evidence of the orange roots.

I think the key word here is 'originally' Theo. The 131 Sport was also available in black coachwork with the red velour interior - and from very early on too, but it wasn't readily advertised and may well have been a 'special order'. The brochures I have from 1979 and 1981 don't show black as an option, and I know they were available because I owned two them!  ;D

NPF 962W 1981 Black

and

JPD 969V 1980 Black

i also remember the black option with both the interiors over her anyway with the 13" alloys standard, thanks for that theo my project Y was silver under the blue but when i am finished with it will be all 628 with the red orange interior retrimmed, any idea where i can get a drivers seat?

That's why I stated "originally"  ;D ;)

I thought the black ones were introduced in 1981 but obviously they were available in 1980 if you've owned one. I also think the black 131 Sports came with the red interior as standard and I don't know if black interior was an option on them.  :-\

For sure the black option was available from early on. I once saw a 1979/T-reg Sport in black when I was looking about years ago, but you are correct Theo, they only came with the red velour interior. People did fit black interiors to them, but these were generally the cars I walked away from ;)

There did seem to be more black cars on the later registrations though and in particular, here in the UK, W to Y-reg cars. But remember, the year of registration doesn't necessarily match the year of manufacture.? ;D

I can't remember the last time I saw a genuine black Sport :-\

Hi, Here's  a tip for undoing/tightening the  crankshaft nut/bolt (the bolt type may be left hand thread). First time the engine up on the timing marks, remove number 1 plug turn the engine 1/4 clockwise get some 6mm blue rope and put about 1ft down the plug hole in to cylinder leaving the end hanging out. Turn the engine anti- clockwise until the engine stops, put your socket on and undo the nut, simple!! To tighten the nut take out the rope turn the engine 1/4 turn passed tdc anti clock wise put the rope back in the cylinder tighten the nut, take out the rope put the plug back in and away you go. I've used this method on many engines with no problems.
I hope this is of some help.
Terry

We also had 131 sports with the racing badge when new in Ireland there were a few in Dundalk & i saw a grey sport in the showroom with a racing badge,
cheers theo i now have andys old red interior so do have to retrim just the rear headrests are a bit sun bleached anybody got good or better ones for sale?

im going to try this im having a bit off fun with a 1.4 sohc
jason

Have you tried slipping the belt out from behind the bottom pulley as it was very unusual to have to remove a bottom pulley on an old Fiat to do a timing belt  ::) ::) ::) ::)

hey simon their was a genuine black sport at 3ma 07 08  :P
over the years i got 4 black sports out of the uk 2 1980 and 2 1981 all 4 had orange seats
with black bumpers in ireland black came with gold bumpers
orange came with black seats black bumpers grey came with orange seats silver bumpers
silver came with black seats black bumpers   alltho i do have a silver irish sport with blue bumpers
never seen another in ireland like it 

Hi Mark there was a 1980 sport up here that originally had the blue bumpers & arches but the owner painted them black, also there was a grey one with black seats & silver trim, mine had black trim & orange seats, there was a black one with black seats & black trim. if i get talking to the owners i will ask them for some pics  all seem to know i now have another sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1.4 sohc have a plate behind the crank pulley coving the belt , can anyone scan the  other maual not the haynes the auto somthing one and timeing marks

Most of my Fiat TC mech experience was with 124's. I owned a few Coupes (Spiders were for sale: If I go dirty-side-up (not YET!) I want at least trivial tin overhead).

Bobdan's OHV timing mark pic was interesting. I never saw such under the sludge on a DOHC motor.

Early owners/repair manuals showed a "holding fixture" that locked all 3 sprockets together; at least on a 1438cc engine. US 1608, 1592, and 1756 engines (Lancias, too) seemed to use whatever aux sprocket the factory worker had at hand. Timing marks were NOT consistent.

I snow/mud bogged a 1438 coupe (no splash pan) and threw an accesory belt very near my rural home. I decided it was time for a timing belt too. I did not clean all of the mud out. Mud dropped onto a sprocket and jumped timing a tooth(18 degrees?). The aux shaft/fuel pump cam hit the #1 (#2, I forget?) rod cap and made more noise at idle than any engine running on less than 4 cylinders ever could. This mistake damaged the aux shaft oil seal and increased oil leakage. That would be considered a serious problem on any other make.

If not sure/if in doubt; rotate the crank to 40-45 degrees ATDC #1 cyl and rotate the aux shaft to find interference. When you do; turn the aux shaft 90 DEGREES either way.

I think by '78/'79; 1756 engines had a larger belt shroud cast into the front cover. All earlier US engines were no problen to bend the T-belt behind the crank pulley...

Sorry if I missed the edit function.

A US parts-peddler sold alloy cam sprockets for Fiats. A bit over-tightened T-belt wore 1/3 off of tooth height/width on alloy pulleys on a Lotus 907 in a Jensen-Healey in 700 mi. US 1756 Lancias had GRP cam pulleys. What's the wear story on them?

Hi
I know this thread is old, but a couple of things to add. 

Firstly, you can slip the timing belt on without removing the crank pulley.  There's a way of sliding it in teeth outward and then turning it around the corner at the bottom.  Mine went in very easy (Engine is 131 volumetrico). 

Secondly.... BUT... what I could do with is anyone who has timed the camshafts OTHER than with the standard wheels.  What are the settings?  thanks!