Click to go to back to www.131mirafiori.com Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
May 19, 2024, 09:34:46 AM
Home Help Login Register

+  131mirafiori forum
|-+  131mirafiori home
| |-+  General discussion (Moderator: Admin)
| | |-+  156.....and after
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: 156.....and after  (Read 7237 times)
Thotos
Founding Member
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,343


Theo Kyriacou


WWW
« on: February 01, 2013, 10:19:58 PM »

Alfa needs to come up with a 3 series

Isn't that what the 156 was?  Cheesy
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 08:51:06 AM by kev131 » Logged

Theo Kyriacou
Enfield, UK
Rob 131
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 690


« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2013, 10:57:33 PM »

Theo

Yes the 156 was a rival to the 3 Series as was the 75, 155 and 159.

From a sales (new appeal) view point the 156 was probably the most convincing.

From a quality point of view IMHO the 159 beats its German rival.

However, what I am saying is that Italy needs a new rival. If they can combine the 156's appeal, with the 159's quality, add some Italian Brio and they'll be a rush for the showrooms. I hope  Grin Grin

« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 08:50:30 AM by kev131 » Logged

Rob 131: 2019 BMW 530d M Sport, 2019 Mini Cooper Clubman, 2015 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Performance Edition & 2012 Alfa Romeo Mito 1.3JTDM

Formally Owned an Orange 1979 131 Mirafiori Sport in 90/91

UK
bellamacchina
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,141

bellamacchina


« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 08:19:05 AM »

That's never gonna happen Rob. The 156 sold incredibly well for an Alfa, was also a fantastic looking car. Unfortunately the 159 is nothing more as a pumped up 156, no better design, bigger, much heavier and lost the agile handling of the 156(Alfa dna, because of that) That happened more in the period, the Peugeot 207 and 308 are also evoluted versions of the 206 and 307. To have real succes you need a revolution instead of evolution. Peugeot is back with the 208,lighter, well made, good modern looking, a refreshing car on the market!That's what Alfa needs in both in the small and midsize classes  BUT the resale value of everything non german is always a problem. Alfa can build the most fantastic quality car in the world, people buy a BMW because they can easier trade it in after a few years. The Fiat 130 was a great comfortable car and the building quality and finish was excellent for the period but it was a non seller because it was a Fiat and nobody buys new big Fiats. 35 years later Fiat has a Croma, excellent value for money but when you saw the last one? We saw recently one to trade in, but it should be one of 2 on the market here.................And when people don't buy the cars from the maker, the maker cannot invest in development etc etc etc.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 08:51:41 AM by kev131 » Logged

bellamacchina  Albert

Dronten  Flevoland the Netherlands
Rob 131
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 690


« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 10:36:42 AM »

Albert

Very interesting comments that I would like to add to.

According to various websites in 2014 Alfa are going to launch the Giulia as a rival to the Audi A4 and 3 Series. It looks a real stunner and should be a great drive. I also believe (hope) it will be a great sales success like the 156 was.

Yes the 159 is slightly weighty, but is a great drive and quality wise it beats many of my previous German Cars owned. My last Company Car (my 159 is privately owned) a 5 Series is a case in point here.

If the Giulia has the appeal and has 159 build quality then resale values will be up there with the 3 series and Audi A4. The Jaguar XF is a case in point here, at last the British came up with a car that could genuinely rival the 5 Series and the resale values are great.

Moreover, in the UK, if you look at the Alfa, Audi and BMW used car websites, there is not the great price differential between the 159, A4 and 3 Series that people think they are.

We are all Italian Car enthusiasts on this site. However to keep the great marques going Alfa, Fiat and Lancia, we have to buy them. 
Logged

Rob 131: 2019 BMW 530d M Sport, 2019 Mini Cooper Clubman, 2015 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Performance Edition & 2012 Alfa Romeo Mito 1.3JTDM

Formally Owned an Orange 1979 131 Mirafiori Sport in 90/91

UK
Thotos
Founding Member
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,343


Theo Kyriacou


WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 01:11:29 PM »

The 159 was a reworked GM product so it was missing the Alfa DNA from its inception. Albert's point about Fiat's biggest problem being the fact they are Fiat with all the misconceptions that BMW and Audi buyers have about Fiat is a very valid one and the reason that makers like Toyota and Nissan created totally new marques in Lexus and Infinity to get away from their roots and peoples' misapprehensions. Then again BMW just used to make bubble cars and other small cars under licence and still managed to change their status in the car community to a prestigious car maker. ...  Undecided  I think Alfa missed the boat by not following the 159 with another 3 series competitor. Even if the 159 wasn't as much of an Alfa as the 156, it was a good car and thanks to Alfa's German boss in charge the quality of build was better than the 156 and closer to its German rivals. Going to the Giulietta was a step backwards in their fight with the Germans even if the Giulietta is a great car and much more Alfa than the 159. Then again, as far as I'm concerned, it was a better way forward as I think it'll be a great loss to car enthusiasts if all Alfa was trying to do was to compete with BMW and Audi. There was and I think there still is something special about Alfa that shouldn't be lost in an attempt to simply compete with the Germans. The motoring world should be big enough for both BMW and Alfa. There will always be people like Simon and Kevin who will choose a BMW over an Alfa but equally there will also be people like me who will always choose an Alfa over a BMW  Grin Grin  
Logged

Theo Kyriacou
Enfield, UK
mirafioriman
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,133


My next project......


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 01:49:27 PM »

I think the reputation of Italian cars of the 60's, 70's and 80's for rust are still a major factor in the uk car buyers' mindset.

They may be similar prices when new but 3-5 years down the line depreciation has killed them. I think many people are put off for this reason. It's a similar issue for big Peugeots. An older one of those is worth about 50p! Grin
Logged

My name is David Hobbs and I currently own: Fiat 130 berlina, Fiat 131 Supermirafiori, Fiat 131 Panorama, Fiat 132 2000, Fiat Argenta, Mercedes 300SEL 6.3, 450 SEL 6.9 a 420 SEL, Citroen Xantia
c.a.c131
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 966



« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 06:21:49 PM »

I did like BMW's till I sold them and this has put me off for life ! BMW say the ultimate driving machine and it is true a "machine". A Germany car will never have the "alfa magic" that you get with an alfa romeo even in a FWD one Cool

Alfa did make a come back with the 916 GTV & 156 and have lost they way again sadly Cry

I don't know what alfa romeo are at Huh only two models in the range Angry I think they need to make a big come back and have a RWD cars in the range.

I never liked the 159, Brera/Spider as I don't like anything that has anything to do with GM. I hated that GM V6 engine that alfa in these models, it could never replace alfa's old V6 engine Angry

There is talk of the new alfa spider that is based on the Mazda MX5 and it will be RWD and the Giulia too maybe Huh Huh
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 06:28:27 PM by c.a.c131 » Logged

1980 Fiat 131 Mirafiori Sport/Racing, 1981 Fiat 131 S2 Supermirafiori Panorama 1600/TC.
kev131
Founding Member
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,923



« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 06:29:12 PM »

Just back from the pub where I watched two six nations rugby games while imbibing as much of the black stuff as my kidneys would allow to see my name mentioned in connection with BMWs. Incidentally Simon and I were exchanging texts during the games... in anticipation of the crunch Irl V Eng game next Sunday.  Smiley

Anyway back to cars .....Back in 1984 my father and I visited an Opel dealer with a 2 year old Argenta 2000 in perfect condition and a full Fiat service history. Dad was thinking about buying an Ascona as he had just retired. The salesman showed us the door with the phrase - Sorry your car is "too good" to trade against an Opel. What he meant was that he wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!! It was eventually traded for a Regata 85 but that experience taught me a lesson. When you are handling your own money rather than your company's money, the day you buy a car is the day you sell a car.  Smiley

Anyone who has the b***s to buy a new Alfa (or big Fiat...although they don't exist any more) better want another one afterwards or be prepared to lose a fortune. I'm trading my 4 year old Passat shortly and I'm getting almost 50% of the original purchase price in a trade in. No Italian bread and butter saloon would compete with that.......sadly  Smiley
Logged

Kevin Doyle
Fiat 131 Mirafiori Sport 2000TC
Fiat 131 Supermirafiori S3 2000TC
Limerick, Ireland
Thotos
Founding Member
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,343


Theo Kyriacou


WWW
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 06:46:09 PM »


I don't know what alfa romeo are at Huh only two models in the range Angry I think they need to make a big come back and have a RWD cars in the range.


Two models are because Alfa is in a bit of a limbo at the moment while parent Fiat decides what to do. And I doubt there'll ever be a RWD Alfa to compete with BMW's 3 or 5 Series. If the Fiat Group were to produce a 5 Series RWD beater it'll probably be a baby Maserati and not an Alfa. I think Fiat's problem is too much overlap in its marques. Maserati was aligned with Alfa to raise Alfa's image and it didn't work so they aligned Maserati with Ferrari for a while but that didn't work either so realigned Maserati with Alfa again. The Alfa 8C Competizione (Maserati 4200, GranTurismo) was a nice result of the Alfa/Maserati marriage  Wink. It's this make overlap that's killed Lancia and reduced it to rebadged Chrysler cars. I think the Alfa Giulietta on Fiat's Compact platform is a lovely car and I hope to own one sometime in the not too distant future (probably my 156 replacement?) but Alfa need a bigger saloon car if they are to compete with the Germans. Then again as I've said before, I don't think Alfa should be all about competing with the Germans  Undecided  
Logged

Theo Kyriacou
Enfield, UK
Thotos
Founding Member
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,343


Theo Kyriacou


WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 06:57:10 PM »

When you are handling your own money rather than your company's money, the day you buy a car is the day you sell a car.  Smiley

Very wise words for someone who's been drinking the black stuff all afternoon!  Grin Grin And that's also where I'm obviously going wrong as I seem to buy cars and keep them forever or until they dissolve, written off, stolen or whatever  Grin Grin I certainly seem to have bought many more cars than I've sold  Undecided  Then again I tend to buy old(er) cars and not new with my money. Even the 156 which was bought "new" with no previous owners was out of production for 2 years before I bought it  Undecided

Logged

Theo Kyriacou
Enfield, UK
c.a.c131
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 966



« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2013, 07:02:00 PM »

Sorry your car is "too good" to trade against an Opel Cheesy I think the sales man was telling the truth about the Opel's Wink My Dad had an Opel Ascona that when on fire and was replaced with a good fiat 131 Smiley

All new car loss money no matter what make they are, I can buy 3 month old cars from the distributor for a lot less then the cost of a new one. You could buy a very nice 131 super for the money your new car will lose when the number plate goes on. I don't think anyone in Ireland would buy a new fiat or alfa now, when they can buy a Ford, Toyota, VW for the same money.
Logged

1980 Fiat 131 Mirafiori Sport/Racing, 1981 Fiat 131 S2 Supermirafiori Panorama 1600/TC.
Rob 131
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 690


« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 12:03:40 AM »

Theo

You won?t get Kevin or Simon out of a BMW Grin Grin. My friends and family previously said the same about me. My cars from the millennium as listed below, shows that people do change:

2009 Alfa 159 JTDM Lusso (Alfa Red)

2009 BMW 525i SE Auto (Alpine White)

2007 BMW 520d SE (Met Black)

2005 BMW 320i SE (Met Silver)

2002 BMW 330i Sport (Imola Red)

1999 BMW 318iSE (Met Green)

1996 BMW 325i Coupe (Met Silver)

Never be sure of anyone and their car tastes. It is a real shame that the Guilia was not phased in to replace the 159. However, a 2 year time delay may work to its advantage.

I would say based on my recent Highland drive (I wasn?t watching the Rugby) in the 159 that this is a genuine Alfa with a little GM DNA.   
Logged

Rob 131: 2019 BMW 530d M Sport, 2019 Mini Cooper Clubman, 2015 Kawasaki ZX6R 636 Performance Edition & 2012 Alfa Romeo Mito 1.3JTDM

Formally Owned an Orange 1979 131 Mirafiori Sport in 90/91

UK
Thotos
Founding Member
Hero Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,343


Theo Kyriacou


WWW
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 01:26:38 AM »

people do change:

They most certainly do and I am living proof! If you told me 10 years ago I'd own a Mercedes or a Diesel or an Automatic I would have said "no way!" Grin But I have all three in one car now and in fact I have 3 automatics. I've even convinced or tried to convince other people that diesel automatics are the future of everyday motoring (at least until hybrids or electrics get a lot better). I think the world should thank Fiat for developing the common rail diesel engine technology  Wink

Logged

Theo Kyriacou
Enfield, UK
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Disclaimer: This forum is available free and is part of a non-profit website run by volunteers for the benefit of owners and enthusiasts of the various models of the Fiat 131 and derivatives. Information is provided in good faith and no liability can be accepted by any individual for any situation arising from the use of this information.

Opinions expressed in this forum are those of the contributors and not of the website's owners, administrators or moderators who cannot accept any responsibility for the results of following any advice given by contributors.

The administrators and moderators of this forum reserve the right to edit or delete anything they consider to be of a defamatory, discriminatory, derogatory, abusive or otherwise unacceptable nature.



Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Click to visit www.thotos.com