Group 4

[kev131]

One for the real enthusiasts to pick over.....

http://www.autoscout24.de/Details.aspx?id=222210476&cd=634855727350000000

[mirafioriman]

One for a lottery winner

[miro-1980]

Real beauty !

 Note the car has a standard tank , wet sump, single electric pump and a pressure regulator and is in amazingly good shape !


In fact the shape is so good I looks like it has never been raced/ rallied ?

If all key elements are original (from this vehicle) and history of rally use by Marku Allen is well documented - the price is actually pretty good.

My suspicion is it was grossly rebuilt , and than the price is far too high ( actually its value may be not more than 150% of a good 131 abarth replica.

Miro    

[mirafiori76]

I consider myself close to an expert on real group 4 cars, but i can't tell if this is a real one or not. I see group both group 4 parts as Strdale parts.
Personally i think it's a converted Stradale. In that case it will never have been raced by Markku. Not in those days anyway.
Hard to tell    But a fine example it is.

[Fiat 131 Abarth#2]

i see a lot of Stradale parts like the door with the hole for the mirror,
and the wiper arms are not Gr.4
i think also it's a conversion from Stradale to Gr.4

but with 170.000 euro i can build 2 Gr.4 like this from an Stradale 

Simon bring me your car! 

[mirafiori76]

I noticed that too. But part from the door and the wipers, look at the ignition...it's same as the ones from Stradale. Also the shock towers are too smooth. No weldings visable.
Then the parts in the trunk: standard tank? As far as i know all original groep 4 tarmac cars had the L-shaped aluminum one. Only one pump with filter. And an odd place for the battery.
Finally, NO drysump!
This must be a converted Stradale. Nice job though, but not a car driven by Markku Alen and therefor not worth 170.000.

[miro-1980]

Re Wipers

Please enlighten me with regard to gr4 wipers, please

Miro

[Fiat 131 Abarth#2]

Re Wipers

Please enlighten me with regard to gr4 wipers, please

Miro

Gr.4 wiper arm have an extra hinge and linkage!  

[mirafiori76]

Have a look at my topic. I posted a picture of that wiper arm...somewhere 

[miro-1980]

Here it is :

[mirafiori76]

Yes, that's it. Thanks Miro 

[TfP-Motors]

Finally, NO drysump!

Hey, can you Mike tell us when dry sump has become in the Gr.4 classification certificate? i readed something 7 / 1977?

[131rally]

I wouldnt say its a 100% sure replica. Add say its first version. 1976 they had std based ignition, and wet sump. The drysump was first time used on -77 Rally of Thousand lakes. The fuel tank is unusual, and atleast not from the -76. BUT, Abarth homologated the standard tank -80 (or-81) in the same time as they homologated the smaller drysump tank and the magnesium clutch cover. They were ment for tarmac versions, to make them even lighter than they were. Its reasonable to think its first version, and its possible they put the lightest possible tank later. So, it could be original. The front shock towers are not seam welded, that speaks on the replica. The support bracket also looks badly welded.. But you cannot say its a replica even cause that, its possible its crashed and replacement parts were not seamwelded. The injection is also non-76, the guillotine was taken on use at -77 also, but it was common practise to put later parts on early cars. One thing is for sure, I wouldnt pay that much on that car.

[mirafiori76]

The add says it's evo 1, so could be series 1. But every time a group 4 car is offerd it seems to be driven by Markku Alen. Of all official 48 Works cars, he drove about 10 perhaps.

[mirafiori76]

Weldings in my car are also terrible.
The tank in this car is just the standard on. The ones in the familiar L-shape were bigger and had some kind of "bag" inside. Thus heavier.
170.000 is a lot of money. But the price for an original is around 150.000 Euro's. Adding the name of Markku makes it worth 20.000 more i guess. I think i will do the same to mine. Not a bad price for some stickers 5 euro's worth...