What is a "Super," "Sport," "Racing," "Mirafiori," for a 131

[jasonh131]

God don't you lot go on .... :-\the 132 and super had power steering so sapping 2-3 bhp... oboviuos really. the first answer to his question was great well done 

[Thotos]

Well, I'll continue to "go on" and ask the question: do manufacturers when measuring and subsequently quoting engine power include the ancillaries? Engine power output is quoted for the engine alone and not as fitted to the car so a new engine when measured will not have the power steering rack fitted and therefore not have the loss.

[simon131]

Dunno. More food for thought tho

[curt]

Were any 131s fitted with air con that might have dragged horse power - but then when its actually compressing it would really kill the HP output but as you say are the engines measured with ancilliaries or not 
I would think not 

[krishtiano]

Mine is fitted with air cond and it seriously drags my HP and my fuel!! So most of the time its 'natural air-cond' for me. But during day time it reaches up to 38' celcius. And its freaking hot!

[theredx19]

on a bench test the horse power will be given from an engine which will only have the water pump and altenator running on it and this is the power qouted by the manufacturers and with the altenator it will need to put approx 30 amps for it to absorb 1 horsepower

[Thotos]

on a bench test the horse power will be given from an engine which will only have the water pump and altenator

That's what I thought (but wasn't 100% sure). So loss due to power steering is not an issue here!

[mirafioriman]

Is BHP not a measurement with the ancilliaries taken into account? I thought this was the case. HP is the engines output without these. For example when Ford fitted the 2 litre pinto engine into the RS2000 they claimed an extra 2 BHP over the Cortina's engine as the RS2000 was fitted with an electric cooling fan.

[Thotos]

As already stated above

on a bench test the horse power will be given from an engine which will only have the water pump and altenator

So presumably the Cortina fan was mounted on the end of the water pump and was in place in the bhp measurements while it didn't have to be when the engine was going into an RS2000.

But other ancillaries like power steering and air conditioning that connect to devices fitted to the car and not just the engine  will not be included in any measurements. Even if the power steering pump is fitted, it will not be in play as the power steering rack will not be present. In any case, one should NEVER run a power steering pump without fluid going through it (i.e. connected to the rack and full of oil) as the pumps get damaged very quickly if run dry.

[pintopower]

Hey guys, Simon131 mentioned that there were "along with a million trim changes" on the US models. What where the changes? I imagine color and interior color are the most obvious. What colors were offered in Europe? Of the Brochures I have, all I have ever seen was White, Silver, Cream, and Light Metallic Blue. As for interiors, I have seen Black and blue. I also know that seats either came with a bizzare plaid material, velour, or leather. There was also a sunroof and A/C offered, plus all "Bravas" in the US (I dont know about actual 131's) had power steering. Was there an Automatic offered? Mine has one. It is a General Motors unit. I am sorry about all the questions, but I just want to know what the differences were. I have a US Spec. Strada, and I have been trying for the past year to get all the Euro Parts for it. The Strada got much more of a cosmetic change (and a bad one at that) than the 131 did.

[simon131]

This is not a simple answer to give pintopower

To answer the questions about colour and trim it might be best for you to surf onto ebay.co.uk and purchase a few brochures which (as long as you buy the correct edition ) will have this info inside the back cover.

We had all sorts of colours - from a metallic salmon pink colour to silver, through pale yellow and 'old orange', dark red and azzure blue (code 613 - my personal favourite for the series 3 Super!). Trim was cloth for the lower end models and velour for the Sport/Racing and Supermirafioris. Leather was not available in the UK, although I believe the Spanish built SEAT 131 Diplomatic, akin to FIAT's Super, had it.

Sunroofs were available on certain of the 131s as factory options, (Series 2 1600TC Super for example) and only some markets in Europe were offered air conditioning - but not the UK. The only European spec cars to be offered with power steering were the Series 3 Supermirafioris (petrol and diesel).

Yes, automatic gearboxes were available for the 131, but again generally only on the 1600 (Series 1 ohv and 2 ohv and TC). I don't think any Series 3 Supers were automatic, but the 1600 ohc CL certainly was - I've got one!

All 131 automatic gearboxes were 3 speed GM units. This is because FIAT made (and indeed still makes) diesel engines for GM (in Europe and South America) and there was a reciprocal deal.

I hope this helps.

[simon131]

pintopower - reading your note/questions above again - it would appear that the Brava was very much akin to the the European spec 132. In the UK at least the post-1978 132 2000TC was fitted almost exclusively with an automatic gearbox and had power steering as standard, but it also had electric front windows.

At the time, the 132 was the top of the range for FIAT, so perhaps the Brava filled that position in the US?

[pintopower]

simon131 - From some advertisements I have seen, Fiat USA was comparing the 131 Brava to the BMW 3 Series of the same era. I do not know what the 131 was sold as in Europe, wheather it was a upper class car or a middle class car. Fiat, it seemed, tried to hype up the 131/Brava in the US to make it more of a distinguished car as opposed to a run of the mill Ford Fairmont or Chevrolet Malibu. Also, It seems yellow and green were availible in the US as well for the 131.

[simon131]

Unfortunately, certainly here in the UK, the 131 was aimed at 'Middle England'. Most of the roadtests of the time pitched the 131 1600TC fairly and squarely against the Ford Cortina Mk IV, British Leyland's Triumph Dolomite and the Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1.

In many cases the 1600TC 131 was pitched against a 2 litre opponent - and still beat it! (Naturally).

FIAT's advertising literature of the day tried to aim the more luxurious 131s (Supermirafioris particularly) at the up and coming executive types - but whether or not they succeeded is another matter!

I think I have read one road test where the 131 was pitched against BMWs 320, but I can't remember the details. It may have been just the advert you have already posted.

The 132 was aimed at the top end of the market and was supposed to fill the gap left by the huge and wonderfully barge like 130 - which in my opinion it couldn't. The 130 had a large 2800cc or 3200cc six-cylinder engine, usually mated to a 3 speed auto (although some manuals were sold) and compared to the 132, the 130 was a much larger car in virtually every dimension!

The 130 was a unique car really and replaced the six-cylinder 2300. The 132 replaced the 125 and the 131 replaced the 124, so the 131 was a much more 'utilitarian' vehicle. It was only after the model's first facelift (after the 124 Sport Coupe was discontinued) that the 131 started to gain a 'sporting and luxurious' character tag (with the introduction of the Super and Sport models) - but the car was never seen as the top of the range model in Europe.

As I understand it the 132 was never imported to the USA by FIAT was it. Also, FIAT North America carried out several modifications to cars for the US and Canadian markets - most notably the Turbo fitment to the Spider 2000 - so perhaps it was them who were responsible for the leather interiors, etc.

[Thotos]

I remember seeing the Fiat versus BMW adverts in the USA and being rather surprised by them. As Simon says, the Fiat flagship of the era which was the 132 was not sold in the USA so the 131 was the top of the range car for Fiat in USA. It's not as strange as it sounds though because the USA spec 131s were more up-market cars than the European versions. The OHV engines were never offered in the USA and Twin-Cams were always fitted to the USA spec 131s from the Series 1. USA cars also had more up-market interiors with different materials used and also had air conditioning and automatic gearboxes.