131mirafiori forum

Hello,

for 131 Abarth builder's! only 130 Euro

http://www.subito.it/fiat-131-abarth-gr-4-grosseto-11420251.htm

Enzo ;)

New's from 14.12.2010 now 140.- Euro

http://www.subito.it/accessori-auto/fiat-131-abarth-rally-grosseto-15952653.htm

Hi Enzo,

I am planning to build a replica g4  dash for next season.

I have nice push/pull switches but not gauges. Any where I can get Gr 4 replica gauges?

Miro  

Hi Miro,

nice to hear from you! the only at the monent is Guy from Belgium, but i do not have a price.  :'(

http://www.abarth-gmr.be/new/parts.php?dzial=FIAT%20131%20ABARTH

fiat 131 abarth group 4 instruments  -now back in remake the instruments for the group 4 131 abarth :RPM meter;Km/speedmeter;amp;oil and water temp,oil and -fuel presion meter,benzina meter all in orange and good seize

Enzo  ;)

Since there was no longer a dashboard in my car i bought one from Guy together with the gauges. All are very close to the real thing. Not cheap though, but well crafted. Guy doesn't have the original pull switches.

Don't forget that when you use this dash you can't make use of original wires anymore. I build mine from scratch up. One could also lengthen the wires.

Guys , look at these -

What do you think will these be good for Gr 4 replica ?

Miro

These are supposed to be replicas for delta ?

M

The only "original" picture of the cockpit I have is this .

Anybody has anything better or knows if this is Gr 4 original picture?

Miro

Hi Miro,

that gauges from Delta looks nice,  and i think they are OK to make a Replica GR.4 dash.

here some Pic's from Original Gr.4 dash.

Enzo  ;)

Here is a good picture from an original dash. See these are "hanging" gauges.

Here's another one.

Hi Miro

Where did you found those Delta gauges?

See this:

 http://stores.ebay.pl/TAURUS-Tuning-Store/_i.html?_nkw=abarth+delta&submit=Wyszukaj&_sid=512351289

Miro

Useable. :)

I have gauges from Ritmo 125 TC in my replica for years now. Good option also.

Here is some work progress ...

BTW - anybody has these parts spare ?

I need a long fuse panel and a complete vent/heat controls.

M  

Miro,

The fusebox can be found in any 132. So, if there is one nearby  ::)
Heater controls could be a bit difficult to find. Maybe i have a spare, but i have to look for it.

Hi Miro,

the fuse box with 16 fuse are from Fiat X 1/9 serie 1.

Enzo  ;)

Mirafiori and Enzo ,

Thanks, this is very important to me as this may hold up actual build of the dash. Now I know where to look for it. Just called my X-19 and 132 experts  - they will check their stock of spare parts. If you have any of these parts do let me know.  I will gladly trade or buy it from you.  

I just looked at the complete heater/ vent assembly from mk2 sitting in my garage. This is exactly as the one in my car. In fact I had such complete assembly from one of the wracked 131 I bought to build this car and this car actually came with this mk1 heater /vent panel setup. I have decided to go with the later dashboard as the older one was not only cracked but also was designed for a gearbox without the "Abarth" gearshift extension and I wanted the gearshift lever shorter and closer to the driver.  I probably trashed the old one. ( well I could not keep all the parts of five cars we disassembled. Apparently I kept mk2 assembly as backup for my version dashboard. Did not expect  at that time I will be going o gr 4 look.  

My question is this: I assume the wires can be adjusted so than mk1 panel can be connected to mk1 vent heater assembly. Is this correct ?

I have never done that so I am trying to fine out if I just switch panels  or do I need the whole mk1 vent/heater assembly?

Miro

Miro,

Heater housing is the same. Except for the front panel. Mark 2 heater lacks this part. Cables can easely be connected to the mark one controls. In fact, that's the only difference in mark 1 and 2.
So, if you have mark 1 control panel and mark 2 heater, you can put them together. Stands only one problem. The heater will have no valves under the dash. You need to make something yourself, i guess.
Good luck.

RE: "You heater will have no valves under the dash.

You mean no windhshield/legs heat direction control valves ?

M 

No, i mean the direction valves which are on the heater housing on mark 1's. Heating directly to, say, your face. Mark 2 has them in the console. See picture.

Oh sh...  :( >:( :'(

I need the whole mk1 dash , than .....

Building it from scratch or adapting something form a different model will always look out of place and ugly!

M

May be Yagmur he have it .

Why a whole dashboard? You just need the heater unit.

Hi Miro,

this are the Original Racing part and you can use it! look pic.

Enzo  ;) 

That's a mark 2 heater with mark 1 valves in it. Good solution.

Ok, I think I understand.

Just took a mk2 heater assembly off my spares shelf and inspected it closely.
Looks like Enzo's suggested solution is viable.

Fitting mk1 valves into mk2 heater looks simple enough provided I can get my hands on the mk1 valves. Actually it will also look decently.

I measured the openings . Thy are fitted with plastic to accommodate inserts of ca 95mm ( + 10 mm ) x 45 mm ( +5mm ) "+X" = deviation from average measurement.

Anybody got spares ?

M     

If you have a spare console you could take out those valves  ;)

Well,

Sounds easy.

In fact I know that one of the cars we disassembled for spares had mk1 dash. ( it was cracked - so we did not use it.) If we kept it must be somewhere.

Th question is where?

I got my spares in my garage (downstairs) and in the attic, two garages of my two friends, one storage space in rented City Self Storage , and a basement of my friend's house.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

If anybody thinks I know what I have he is very much mistaken .

I pretty much know what is in my garage and in the attic as well as storage box but the rest is a big black hole !!!

They are hard to get to, as well. There is a chance I might have a mk1 dash , but I will not known it for a month or so.

So the easiest approach is to acquire the vents.

Miro

  

...i have a spare one...

Did I ever tell you I liked you ?

Wanna trade for something else ? Sell ?

I have a lot of spares for 131 and might have something yo could use.
Many of these parts are no longer or any use to me because of the  Gr.4 conversion.   

Miro

PS would you also have the vent /heater controls ?

 :)Trading is ok. I will send you a pm.

Guys

I just noticed this thread is in "For Sale and Wanted" section.

If you do not object I will ask the admin to move this tread to garage or project section.

Miro

Enzo it actually is your call - you started it - do you agree ?

M   

Just noticed that the windshield air vents are also different in mk1.

Problem is I have a kit for mk1. 

If I try to work with mk 2 I will have to re manufacture the top of the dash.

Maybe going for the whole mk1 heater is a better solution after all.

Miro,

I may have a heater housing for you as well  :) But i have to look for it. Then you wouldn't need the dash.

Did I tell you I liked you a lot , lately ?

Miro

No, you haven't. But please do... :D :D :D :D

Mike,

I have found complete seat of front seat frames with the adjustment mechanism. Now, the adjustment mechanism is apart of the seat not the "sleigh" ( or the two pieces which are bolted down to the chassis , on which the seats slide front and back to allow distance adjustment).
 What do you actually need ?

Miro

Miro,

Thanks. I need the complete sleighs. That is, the whole parts between the seats and the mountings on the floor. It's one system. To make it possible to slide the seats from front to rear. You got 2 of them?

Mike

Mire,

I got four of them (two for driver and two for passenger...)

Miro





 

Miro,

Yes, that's what i need. And i want the 2 best of what you got  ;) :D :D Complete sleighs. Remember, i got nothing but just the seats.
Any luck on the window seals?

Mike

Not yet ,

The window rubbers must be somewhere else  ...

M

Re sleighs : each seat has two such pieces right and left- you want two sets ( for both seats or just one ?

 

Ow, you got the ones from Racing. You wouldn't happen to have the ones from an L or CL or so, do you? These are complete units (sleighs and handles in 1 unit). If i had a picture i could show what i mean  :-\

This is what I found .. I take it these are not the ones you are looking for ?

M 

BTW , to keep n track with subject matter : gr 4 Dashboard

I just found the labels that came with the dash kit ...

Enzo please check if m Italian is on track:"

Pompe benz. = fuel pump
Int. Gener. = ????internal generator ????

Vant Acqua = coolant ventilator (for radiator fan manual override switch)

Luci Prof. =  hi beam ( for high beam indicator light)

Luci Suppl. =   supplementary lights (for driving/fog light switch/indicator light)

Luci Posiz. = position lights  (for switch and indicator light)

Frecce = turn signal (for turn signal indicatir light)

Avviam = starter ( for starter ?? = the two position switch on of , or the push button to engage the starter)      

Alternat. = alternator (for indicator lamp)

Ventilaz. = ventilation (for heater /internal vent blower switch)  

Miro

 :-\ No Miro. Racing seats have sleighs themselves. I need the ones from another model. I take it you don't have any then?

btw, Frecce means arrows  :) ;)

Hi Miro,

the labels and the translations are right!
and the windshield air vents on the first pic i send was in progress,  and now it look like this.

Enzo  ;)

Enzo please tell me where do I place:

"Int. Gener." 

How does it differ from "Alternat."

I am still looking for the mk1 heater.

 
Miro

Hi Miro,

Generator or Alternator it's the same! and the place look on the pic's

Red = Generator
Green = Frecce

Enzo  ;)

Enzo ,

I am confused:

1/ "Alternetor " is the light that goes on when the ignition is turned on. It shows that ignition is on but the the alternator is not charging - as the engine is not working .

2/ Frecce should be the turn signal , right

So what is: "Int Gener.' ????????????? ??? 

1/ that's right.
2/ that's right.

Sorry misunderstanding:

Inte. Gener. it's not shortcut for Generator  inte.(rruttore)=Switch  Gener.(ale)=main

Look Pic, you can use it for this two things!   

Enzo  ;)

My guess at translation would be 'general disconnect'
I.e. Battery  Isolator in case of a crash - or put another way
' In case of incorrect driving style - or inability to avoid that tree or ditch - please turn this switch before your car bursts into flames '
However it would be a very long sticker - And should only be used in case of emergencies - The exit doors are located - one each side of you - In case of a ditch filled with water - there are lifevests located under your seat - please remove shoes and leave any personal items behind- and thank you for flying abarth airways !!
 ;D ;D

Ok now  got it ,

Thanks Curt 

Miro

interrompere generale

Is the original Italian - and is indeed the 'kill' switch for the battery power -I.e. isolator for the battery -Sorry for the bad attempt at humour !!  ;D ;D

No problem, Curt

We all love you anyways  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Now let's return to what this topic is about. ;)

Your sense of humor is great ,

Let me see what you are saying is this" kill switch - kills the engine before it kills you ?

Miro 

Just a quick retort - Thanks for keeping me GROUNDED mike  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes indeed- It is a dissconnect of all electrical devices to prevent fire or explosion
I.E fuel pump ,ignition,alternator etc and any electrical short circuits to the battery to stop it from melting !!!

And it's located in the main + wire.

Fuse box seems resolved : it was from a Ferrari.  :(

Porcelain fuses ( bought all stock from a local electric store). ... ;D

Miro

 

Wow, i have Ferrari parts in my Fiat  :D :D :D

Hi Miro & Mike,

now we know why Abarth it's so expensively! because they use Ferrari spare parts.  ;D

I have a lot from Fiat and Ferrari and Dino spare parts build in the Strat.  :'(

Enzo  ;)

Guy guys guys have you ever thought that Ferrari use FIAT parts ?  :D :D :D

Didn't you know that Ferrari's are build from recycled Fiats? :D :D :D :D :D

IT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED THAN !

Ferrari  is but a recycled fiat

PS: Digging in a pile of old junk at friend's garage ( searching for parts to trade for the heater parts with mirafiori76  I have found this:

( look like an original Abarth switch )

Miro

I am not sure if he brakes down Ferraris in his garage to sell as spare parts for Fiats , or the other way round (?)  ??? ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D   

.. compare it the original....

Miro,

It's not a special Abarth part. It's from Fiat 242 or so. I have but only one and it's in white (!!!).
I have been searching for these switches about 20 years or so...

Got the heater back today. It needs some cleaning but it's fine. Controls are sill atached. Now finding the front panel.

Did you have any luck finding parts for me?
 :) ;)

Mike ,

Currently I am tracking the window rubbers , but so far I have the ones with inserts and I am not sure of this is windshield or rear window, but we are working on this ... ::)

Re: switch

I think these are very old Hella switches. I would not be surprised if they were used on 241 or 242.

Miro  

If mike don't want them I will have them  ;)

Well, stathe174

Do you have the mk1 heater and vent ducts to trade ?   ::) ;D ;D ;D

Miro

PS: I have to see what I got. One set goes to mirafiori , one set stays home and if there is a spare set it may be traded with you.

M 

Yes I do but its on my car...  :D :D :D I'm thinking though to order a new one from Yagmur Or if you want I will track down from any series one that brake for spares  ;)

Another question I have is if we can use oil pressure and oil temp valves from VDO to the ABARTH meters...

The senders you mean ?

Well I always but them as a set as many of them differ greatly. so unless this s dedicated sender to a dedicated gauge - there is always a risk it will not work at all. I have tried it many times and learned this he hard way.

(PS: I think this time these are actually VDO senders , but can check as I have both VDO and Abarth senders.

Miro  

Fiat uses Veglia Borletti mostly. Best to use Veglia Borletti gauges and senders together. If you install VDO it's better to use those together.

Yes the senders I meant  ;D
Do you if autobianchis ABARTH meters are VDO or Veglia?

Autobianchi has also Veglia Borletti system.

stathe174,

Look at this : 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FIAT-131-REAR-WINDSCREEN-RUBBER-/130446712616?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e5f3adf28

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FIAT-131-FRONT-WINDSCREEN-RUBBER-/130446712626?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e5f3adf32

Thanks for that but I need the ones with the chrome inserts for my special

Guys ,

here is the proper Gr 4 fuse box !

M

Very nice. Now where did you get that? Even with an original lid. :)

Do not ask for the price , please

It was advertised as for Lanborghini / Ferrari ( which may be accurate)  and priced accordingly !

What do you think about my (two) original  switches ?

M
  

VEGLIA BORLETTI

Any body has a sensor for this ?

that IS a fiat 132 fusebox, believe it or not.

I do not want to believe it , but I will ... when I see it

M

If it is then it must be from an i.e.

   
Hi ,

In the meantime we made some progress:

The original dash was removed and new ( gr.4 ) was fitted :

The gauges visibility is what I aimed for ; perfect view of all gauges and the RPM meter centrally located. With built in shift warning light this should work quite well.

Difficulties : not many

It was important to keep all gauges ans switches connected after removing the original dash - to help identify all required wires to connect switches as well as gauges.

The dash is mounted on bent 4mm x 40mm strips of hardened aluminum. This gives both stability as well as light weight. It also offers required safety - the strips will give in under pressure and bent rather than cause potential injury.

Currently all the wires are being connected to new switches and gauges.

It will be painted satin black , and the top will be lined with thick felt . The felt will be glued on by a special automotive contact glue. On the felt I will glue thick black woolen cloth. The top dash lining will be up to 1 cm thick.

The sharp edges of the dash top plate will be protected by a thin plastic tube cut in half. This will create a bulge on the edge of the top dash plate making it much softer and not as sharp . When in addition covered by felt and thick cloth both flipped over the edge this should be well protected. As the felt and cloth will be flipped over the edge it will also provide lining between the top plate and the dash. This should make this connection soft enough to prevent rattling due to vibrations. If required additional mounting bolt on points will be made to keep the top plate and and the dash integrated.

More as progress is made...

Miro

PS : as there was no speedo in gr 4 cars I plan to install an SPA digital speedometer. It is fully programmable , including a programmable acceleration timer (it will give a 0-100 km/h accelerations time). This speedo is completely universal -the speed reading is taken from magnets which are attached to a wheel hub. Calibration can be set to any tire/wheel size. With 48x29x25mm it can be easily mounted under a flip cover so that will not spoil the gr.4 vintage dash look - and when needed can be opened to be visible.

Good job Miro  8)  , the work goes on.... and nice idea the spa may be for little passage on road ...

More done !

The felt gluing went very well ! 

The surface is soft and absolutely flat.

The black cloth will be glued over the felt after I can attach the aluminum mounting brackets. This requires bolts to be attached. To hide the bolts under the black cloth on the top I have to position them properly and cover with small pieces of felt.

Hopefully this will be done tomorrow.


Miro 

The stopper - chronometer  pocket done .

The pocket will be lit by red pilot lights which should have a pretty effect during the night

Miro 

The dash is ready , pictures are few  and poor quality but more will come

Where can those relay bottoms be found? Three relays in a row? Or three independent bottoms? How about wiring diagrame for G.4, does anybody have it?

Marko

Also, can somebody tell me, how many of those pull on-off switches were in original dashboard, and how many of them were two-position switches and was there some with three positions? Also, were they all with red light, or, was some with different colour of light? Or, some without light?

I did find a source for those switches, but I should know how many I should buy. If somebody need these, I can sell new original Hella switches without light for 10?/each. Its 100% the same. With light they cost 60-80?/each depending on colours.

Marko

Marko,

Sometimes 6, sometimes 7 and sometimes 8. It all depends on what parts you got on your car. Do you have a heater? 1 or 2 fuel pumps? That sort of things.
I can tell you right away, but i need some more information about your car.

I dont have the car yet. But Im going to build g.2 Racing to gravel rallying, with all possible homologated parts. So, it should have 8v engine with Kugelfischer and drysump. It will have heater from mkI Mirafiori, Racing lights, g.4 fusebox (as homologated to g.2). Im trying to make it as much as Abarth would have done it, so Im not sure if they used one or two fuelpumps? What Ive heard Abarth never made any g.2 them selves, but sold the parts to whom wanted to build it. I guess, Abarth would have used all electrics from g.4 cause the dashboard was homologated from g.4. So, I think the setup Abarth used at 1978 would be the one I should try to copy. What Ive been doing now, is Im charting what I need, and get the parts when I find it. I do have g.4(g.2) front shocks, uniball mounts, some parts for dashboard and so on. Im just beginning.  Im racing my track bmw actively, so Im not in hurry.

Marko

I have absolutely no idea how a group 2 Abarth is put together. If there ever was such thing. But a "winter" tarmac version from 1978 on had switches 7 for lights, heater and ignition. And a 2-flip switch for eather ignition or fuel pump. My Abarth has one switch for fuel pumps (they run together) and 2 for ignition (2 coils).
But no group 4 was ever the same, so all parts differ. Even the switches.
I got one of those original switches for just 1 Euro (!!!!), yes. But i know they are worth a fortune.

Look here  :)

8 pull switches, all on-off? Or is the light switch three postition, off-parks-lights? All with red dot? And blower with three positions also, 0-1-2?
2 flip switch, both on-off? Do you have good picture of those?

How was the main switch originally? It had one small pull switch with text for it, did it cut power through solenoid type of relay? Some ex works seem to have modern type main switch, but guess they were installed later?

Marko

Hi Marko,

This is such a difficult subject. Like i said, no group 4 car was alike to another one. The ones produced in 1975 were so much different from the ones used later. And then there were the privateers...

Here goes: Mainley there were 4 versions. Tarmac summer and tarmac winter. Gravel summer and gravel summer. I don't mention the safari cars, because they were even more different.

The switches were all the same, that's for sure. On/off. They were earlier used in Lancia Strato's. Had the little red light in it. Did you know they were available in white as well? I got one. Can't use it though.

1.There was one switch for ignition
2.One for basic lights (dashboard, tail light and the small one s at the front. From 1978 they used the indicators from Lancia Aurelia GT. They're made of glass btw, not plastic.
3.One for beam lights in the middle.
4.One for big beam lights on the outer side of the car. Used at night.
5.One for Fuel pump(s).
Normal beam lights, great lights are done by the usual switch. The big one on the left on the steering column.
These are the five on top of the dash.
Then there is one located for heating. One position only. Sometimes a second one for the heater. Only used on cars in winter (Monte Carlo/Swedish rally for example).

Then the sixth switch on top of the dash. That's for Fuel pumps or for the second ignition. Yes, the second. Because they broke down almost every rally. On gravel that is. For example: Portugal or Finland. Due to the jumps the car made, the ignition would fail almost every time.
The original ignition system looks great, but is so poor. I don't use it on my Abarth. I have the one from Sport/Racing. Never fails.
Anyway, the sixth position is to choose. If you want to make yourself a gravel rallycar the you should use it for a second ignition, but if you're building a tarmac version use it for a second pump. I have done so because mine is atarmac version with heating. It can be very cold here in Holland  :D

Perhaps you would like to know about indicator light as well. There is one for battery which is red, one for indicators (both left and right) which is green and sometimes a blue one for head beam lights. That's all. No extra lights for whatever.
Group 4 cars, and even group 2 cars have no hazzard lights. Not even Stradale had them, as Simon can confirm, because he still has one original.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask more  :)

Winter...

Summer...

And here is that, ever failing, ignition pack...

Did you know, the teams always had a spare one on the navigator's side? Sometimes just in front of the seat, sometimes behind the aluminum floorplate.

There was no ignition key or lock? No steering lock? Where the starter motor was turned on?

To make this clear, can you describe what had to be done to make the motor run. If the car was at trailer, what switches there must be put on to make it run?  :D

Marko,

In the first picture i posted, do you see the big red key in the middle of the dash? That's the main key. When on, then al electronics work. Switched off kills everything.
From that point there leads the big cable to the starter. Also a small one to a starter knob. Push to start, as to say. Just like a lot of modern cars have nowadays.
In the picture(s) it's the one left from heater controls. Mostly red or black.

You have to consider this: you can't use normal wiring from the 131. You have to make every wire yourself. Some must lead to fuses, some to relais (there are 9), some to both. Everything needs grounding. It took me a whole week to lead every wire.
Have a look at this picture. This is how the wiring in my car also looked like.

Ok. How was the main circuit switch made in early versions? There is only small on-off switch, relay controlled? With very large solenoid looking relay? Do you have wiring diagram for g.4?

I have done full electrics to my previous 131 rally car. And also my race BMW has all electrics done by me. So, thats not a problem at all. The main problem is how to make the electrics like Abarth did it.

Al those questions... ;)
Like i said, i dn't know if there ever was a group 2 Abarth version of the 131. Therefor i don't know if the wiring diagram is the same. As far as i know the group 2 car is based on a normal 2-door shell with modifications made to it. Maybe Racings, maybe Specials.
I only know of group 4 specs, but i have to do everything by pictures because, as far as i know, there is no wiring diagram made from group 4 cars.

You probably know the promotion pictures from the Oliofiat rallycar. Giorgio Pianta behind the wheel. Look at the right rear window. There is a kill-switch located. This is 1976.
Later on, that key was located in the trunk. Look at the picture of my car... And yes, there's the one on the dashboard. They both are integrated in the main wire from battery to starter engine. There's no relay or anything anywhere in that wire.
Don't get fooled by pictures from cars with a switch between the windshield and the bonnet. That's not original.

The key on the dash is your electronics key. From that there goes a wire to an ignition switch. Pull-type. You pull it and there's the light for battery. From that switch there goes a wire to the starter knob. Push it and the starter comes alive.

All other electronics are directly controlled from the main key.

I hope this gives you a picture of things. If not, just ask. :)

Another picture from pumps and wiring  :)

Ok, I understand the main switch now. How about the relays, there is nine relays in three rows. From one picture I can see they are installed to standard Fiat relay bottoms, the one which you can put in a row like Legos  ;) But, what is the order of relays, what they are for? From top left, to bottom right  ;D And the functions of them, are they just on-off relays, or relays changing from one wire to another. Where is flasher relay?

Let me start off with the indicator relais. Since rally cars don't make much use of this part, it is located inside the dashboard. Or behind the plate, as yoy will. Mine is also on the right side behind the other 9.

Now, those nine. All on off and + switching, except for one.  I have absolutely no idea what the sequence is. They are indeed fitted in the block fittings from 132, later also in Argenta.
There are 3 for lights. 2 for fuel pumps. 1 for horn, this one is - switched. 1 for cooling fan.
Leaves 2...and i can't remember from the head what they are for. I'll get back on that.

Maybe there is four for lights? Normal driving lights, high beam, then two pairs of rally lights. And the last for rear window heater? Or does the igntion have own relay? Ok. How about the map-light for the co-driver? Where was it? And where did the cables go to the engine compartment? From pictures can be seen that original fusebox is taken away, and hole is welded.

BTW, have you looked inside the drysump tank? Does it have spiral sheet of steel inside, from top to bottom? Or, is it just open canister? New drysump tanks use this spiral for de-aeration of the oil. Do you have pictures of the late version of the can, it was a lot smaller, homologated 1980 or so.

Marko

No, it's 3 relais, for headlights, inner beam lights and outer beam lights.
D**m, i made notes, but i can't find them. And i can't recall what i did 2 years ago. Must be aging  :D ;)

It's funny that you mention the rear window heating  ;). It's made of plexi glass...

Map light is located on the right side and fixed to the anti-roll bar. Doesn't use a relay.

Oil cannister is totally empty on the inside. Oil falls in on the top and is sucked out at the bottom.

Oh, plexiglass..  :D

Do you have pictures of oil lines to trunk, inside the car, or under? How about brake lines? Inside, but where, steel or copper? Did the pedalbox have adjustment? I saw a picture which it didnt have adjustment, only fork in the pedal, and two more forks to cylinders.

Marko

Note, the fusebox is from 132.
Forget to put in my former reply.

Oillines are under the bottom of the car, mostly next to prop shaft. They run a strange way. From engine, under the bottom and behind the rear axle they come inside the trunk. Just behind the rear bulkhead.

Perhaps it's a good idea for uou to have a look at my topic. I posted some pictures from almost everything in my car.

Brakes. 2 or 4 at the rear? Handbrake integrated?

Pedalbox. I'm sure you noticed the 2 brake cilinders there. There's another story....

I just ordered the fusebox from US. So, first part for dash is coming. About the warning lights, do you have place to buy to originals, or exact copies? And, I noticed there were different amount of lights in the cars, what were the lights, high beam, alternator, oil pressure, and?

Marko

A question for you. Maybe i am mistaken, but you are planning to have yourself a group 2 car. Isn't it so that this car wil have a bumper on the front? This means you can't place the beam lights from a group 4 car. Which brings me to your question again...they are not available anymore. Same as for front indicator lights (1978 on).

Next question, control lights on the dash. 1 for alternator, 1 for indicators and 1 for head lights. Control light for oilpressure is in the gauge. This is just a small light, but the gauge is directly in front of you. That's why owners later placed a big warning light in the middle of the dashboard.
Ofcourse you are free to place as many warning lights as you like, but what i am telling you here is what is original.

Yep, I must use plastic bumpers, but I can use g.4 style fender extensions and small fiberglass front spoiler, a bit different in g.2.  And the extra lights, they propably must be external spots on top of the bumper.

I think I saw four warning lights in one picture you attached?

And in one picture, there was two starter button style buttons?

And, in one picture there was digital watch for co-driver. What is the brand of it?

Marko

Marko, do you have a picture from such a group 2 car? I would like to see what it looks like.

As i said, you're free to place as many switches or lights as you want. And wherever you want. I just summed the original ones.

I don't know anything about digital stopwatches for the co driver, and i don't like them either. When i have the money i will purchase the orginals. There are two of them and they cost about 800-1000 euro's. That's a lot of money.

Isnt this original watch from late seventees ?

(http://www.131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3624.0;attach=7878;image)

This is pretty much correct g.2 Racing. EXCEPT the front bonnet is from mkI mirafiori, should be without grooves.

(http://www.131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3821.0;attach=6801;image)

Alright, i had this car in mind. Personally i don't like it, but that's me.

The second picture shows exactly what i mean. All the switches and lights are there. And yes, there are the right tripmasters. But they are very rare because they're mechanical and brake down. And very expensive.

I know the tripmasters, but what is the digital watch in the picture? Its from right era, I think, from what can be seen from windshield. I think Im going to use this picture as what Im trying to make the dashboard like. Cause I think this pic must be from -78-80 or so. Or, what you think which year the pic is?

Marko

I don't know what the digital watch is for. Perhaps anybody else does?

I do believe the picture from the interior is taken from Jean Claude Andruet's car. Second position in 1977 Monte Carlo Rally. Perhaps you can ask "Biche" what she used to do with the digital watch... :D :D :D  ;)

Sorry, Im confusing you. I know what the watch is for, but what is the brand of the watch = manufacturer of the watch? I cannot figure out the logo. 

I thought it was from RAC cause of the MINTEX text on the car on front.

Could be Halda then. Like the two others.

Clock manufacturer is WHARTON, as is displayed on the clock.

Robert, you are right. Now i see it too.

I got the brand name from Finnish rally forum. And its really Wharton. I cannot find any for sale though. Seems to be pretty rare watch?

But is it really such an interesting part? I wouldn't care if it wasn't on the dash of my group 4 car. I do want the 2 Halda tripmasters, however. They just belong. And it really looks nice on the right side of the dashboard....it's so empty right now  :D :D

Get a suitable digital clock, have a casing manufactured (looks fairly square, this casing) and apply the digitized Wharton logo (also not too difficult).

The Haldas get more expensive every day, by the way. So anyone who's looking for one of those should get it soon. Prices for twinmasters will soon pass the 2000? threshold  :o, and tripmasters will follow in this wake.

Then the space on the right side of my dashboard will be open for a very, very long time. After i win some lotery i will have some money for it  :D ;)

But i promissed the scedual from the nine... I found my notes  ::) Taken from an original group 4 car. Here we go:

1.Great beam lights (only outside,as standard). 2.Windshield wiper    3.Horn

4.Normal beam lights (outside,as standard)       5.Beam inside   6.Beam outside

7.Cooling fan                                                   8.Fuel pump     9.Fuel pump

5 and 6 are for the lights in the frontspoiler. 6 is only used when there are lights fitted. I have the wiring, but no lights yet. They are attached to the front as the ones inside are welded to the body (see my topic, one of the first pictures).

The watch, you must have a watch when your rallying. Your going in minute schedule on stages. If your early, you will get big penalty, if your late, you will get smaller penalty. And it must be accurate, and you must see seconds. I really would like the early models, TAG Heuer (?) stop watches. But, Im pretty sure they will cost something between 500-1000? each... So, Im interested of any watch actually used in those days in 131. Thats why Im interested of it, not for looks, its for go  :D And yes, it wouldnt be too bad job to make a "Wharton" look-a-like. The case seem a standard electrics housing. Propably can be found from any electrics store.

Thanks for the relay wiring. The wiper relay, if I remember correctly it was a special relay in standard 131 cause it has different speeds. How its done in g.4 if it has only one on-off relay? Is there only one speed?

Marko

Hi Marko,

Yes, the wiper has one speed and it's very fast. The wipermotor has a shorter drive, so wipers will move on the windshield much faster.
Heater blower also has one speed only. Otherwise there would have to be an extra switch  ::)

Everything in the 131 Abarth has been brought to a minimum. Which also means no inner lights and no rear window heating. Oh...and NO radio  :D :D :D

Actually, I think your wrong about the radio. Didnt they use VHF radios? Atleast many of the cars do have a long antenna? They didnt have C-cassette players nor FM radios, thats for sure  ;D

How about the switches on steering wheel, were they standard 131? It did have three motion wiper? And the lights had three positions also? Parks, lights and high beam?

Marko

Yes, they had VHF radio's. It was located between the seats. It was bedded in a piece of foam and was pinched between the seats. I believe i only one picture of that. I recon it will be impossible to find one of those.

The switches behind the steering wheel are 127/128 first series. Only on/off. As for the wipers, i already told you, it had only one speed: fast.

And the steering column is adjustable, like the ones in 131 Special.

127/128 early series.. Hmmm. Where I could get those as new? And cheap?

Marko

You could visit an Italian carshow nearby and hope they sell old parts. Eventually you can also use first series switch from 131 basic or special.

I have another "did you know" for you (and everybody who's reading with us)...the waterbag for the windscreenwasher isn't located under the bonnet. :o
A small riddle for you. Guess where it's located. ;)

I have about 1000 pics of 131 g.4, and believe me, I really do. So, I know its behind co-drivers leg support. I think I cannot use it, I propably should use plastic racing reservoir.

But, what was the starter button? Where I can find exactly the same?

Makro

 ;) :D So you already did know that. But i think not everybode else does because almost every picture on the internet shows these bags in the engine bay. Or tanks for the matter.

What starter button was used i can't tell. I think they used whatever they had in those days. As it was with a lot of things. Every picture i have from a dashboard shows a different button. I have two different buttons myself and they don't even resamble the ones in the pictures.

Her two pictures from the switches. Just for fun. I got one in white. Perhaps you know whre that's from?

The white Hella switch was in many different cars, but atleast in Porsches and Volkswagens, propably in Mercedes also. Its really exactly the same, but white.

What were those stopwatches originally? Heuer?

Marko

You should read your own topic more carefully :P I already said they're from Halda.

I noticed that, but I thought you ment the digital one. 

Ive thought always theyr these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Heuer-Monte-Carlo-Master-Time-Dash-Timer-Rally-Racing-Stop-Watch-Clock-/200820697868?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2ec1d8ab0c

No problemo  :D

These are useable too. I think i have pictures where these were used.

AFAIK Halda never built stop watches. And I know a little about watches  ;)

Yep, i found a few pictures. A bit small, but still...

This is most definedly one of the weirdest g.4 cockpits Ive ever seen. I have those pictures also, and I really thought its original g.4. But, now I noticed that there is standard 131 fusebox in original place AND g.4 fusebox. And, is there only six relays on dash??? Is this very good replica????

Hi , look at here :

http://www.automobilismo.it/gallery/epoca/Fiat-131-Abarth-Rally/fia01&ipage=

That is pretty nice replica. The real TOP 35976 is in the museum, if I remember correctly.

Yes, that's a replica indeed.

What! This is the same car which is in the museum. Weird. There are a lot of small details which dont look original. Well, maybe somebody stripped the car partly and sold the parts, and now its been build with the parts they have found or something.

I already have these pictures on my pc for at least 3 years or so. I could mention a number of parts which are not original. To start off with the color. It's too light.

I do not know if it is a replica, but it's on the rear  bulb plates are not Carello

Mirafiori76, what do you think of this, it has g.4 fusebox, and standard 131 fusebox????

(http://www.131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3624.0;attach=10775;image)

I think it's a strange setup. It's a very small picture, therefor not easy to see why there are two fuseboxes. I think this car is another replica and that the fusebox at the dashboard is an add to the original box. The fuses and the six relais could have been used for extra lights and fuel pumps.

Do you have place to get the replica dashboard? Moerenhout seem to have, but in the picture its bent in the side, so I hope to find one thats straight. How about the steering wheel, cheapest replica with right texts on?

Marko

I got my dashboard from Germany after an original. The ones Moerenhout delivers are fine too, but i always have problems with Guy's prices. But like i said before, that's me.
The original steering wheel is unavailable, i think. But on Ebay are very good replica's for sale. They look very much like originals. I got such one in my car, untill i ever find the real thing.
I even have a steering wheel that's made by OMP. It has the same shape, but it's got not Abarth on it.

How is the original g.4 dashboard top made? I did see how Miro-1980 did it, is that the original style?

Marko

I don't know, really. I still have no top for my dashboard. Perhaps Miro can shine a light. After all, it's his topic and he has made a top for his dash.
Miro?

Mako.

The fuse box in gr 4 had 16 fuses ! ( and was used in Ferrari *I think )

The original dash I have seen was done exactly like mine ( except for a bit of padding I added)

I have two pictures which I believe  be vintage of original gr 4 cars . the one with feet visible is from Walther Rohrl car.

Remember There were no two exactly the same dashes though all of them had common features.  
Relays, gauges, fuses, stater and  switches were the most common features. But positioning of the switches were adjusted to fit each driver separately.)


 

Just one more original picture I took myself

M

What is the red push button? Under the starter button? Ive noticed most of the non-heated cars have it? The heated have blower pull button there.

Also, do somebody have good and CHEAP source for black dial clock, and stopwatch? I cannot buy Heuer 4000? clocks, and Im not interested of white face clocks.

Marko

The red button is ignition retard button, to help hot engine start.

Mirafiori76 (or anybody), do you have any correct dash warning lamps (the Aurelia GT lamp), if you have, can you measure me the total diameter, light diameter, and total height from dash?

Marko

Does anybody know cheap place to buy the dashboard aluminum? The 130? mentioned in first post is good price..

Marko

As much as this goes against my principals, try Moerenhout  :-[ He makes good replica's. Not cheap, but well crafted.

I think I saw the pricing somewhere, and it was 300-400? for piece of aluminum! Or, was that misinformation?

I don't know what his price is. I know he sells remakes of the stickers and the gauges as well. Not cheap. But i wouldn't know where to get them anywhere else.

Just got a Hella pull switch without light. I dismantled it and will make a oem looking light to it. It seems that the bulb is at back, and light goes through the pull-rod, and there is only a "glass" in the knob. I think I will put a small red led to the knob, drill 3mm hole to the shaft, and modify the back to take 4W bulb. I have all parts, will try to modify in next days. So, I will let you know how it works. Its also possible to have the whole back of the switch made for the light. Its possible, but the screw terminals is the problem. Dont know how I would make the original structure again, its kind of a riveted there.

Dashboard sticker 131 Abarth
like mine Stratos dash look pic:
someone know if they are somewhere to order
or have someone an official setting to copy that?
or an original perfect pic!

Enzo

Enzo,

I believe i have a spare set somewhere. But it's in orange.

Hi Mike,
i bought a dashboard from Marko V.
and i would rebuild mine like the original
i think they are orange in original!
have you an Sticker-shop to make some copy
or if you send it to me,  i will make some for us
and some for here on forum.

i have an top sticker shop he make all my sticker for the Fiat and Stratos!!!

I must search for it. The sheet is somewhere in my documentation. But in a short while i have it here in my home.
We will talk then. Ok?

Enzo,

Check my topic for a picture from my dashboard to see if this is what you are looking for.

Ciao Mike,
i give a look on the complete thread and it was again very interesting to see all
that informative story about the 131 Abarth,  and to see all this Original spare parts!
and i found this picture from dashboard if it's yours, than they are the correct stickers.

Saluti Enzo

Hi Enzo,

Thanks for the compliments. And yes, that's the interior of my car.
I will try to find the stickers asap. In time i shall send you a PM then.
Saluti,

Mike

Enzo, you should have sent me an e-mail!  I idnt notice this thread earlier. I have a set of stickers. I will go and order a larger bunch of them. Mine are Italian and I believe theyr correct, I will check them up, and go and order bunch of them at monday. Im also ordering a bunch of correct gauge dials to fit normal Veglia Borlettis.

Look for the pic:

http://131abarth.com/?page_id=75

Marko

Hi,

I`m building a Fiat 131 Abarth Gr4 replica.
At this time they are in the painter.

For my dashboard i have this gauges:
Oil temp
Oil press - Veglia Fiat 124 Sport
RPM
Aqua - Veglia Fiat 124 Sport
Benzina - Veglia Fiat 124 Sport
Amp - Veglia

I think i need one for benzina press, it`s the left gauge?

Now i`m looking some things for dashboard, like:
Dashboard pannel
mounting suport
stickers
switchs
lights
fuse box
...

if i can`t search fuel press i can`t use dashboard pannel because i fail one gauge  ???