131mirafiori forum

hi all
 Theo whats your intented route , simon mentioned turning north into belguim to avoid france and the tolls
on the auto rountes , or are you blasting right there ,,,
 i 'll be convoying with you, as being a first timer,  ony been on small trip around bruge, gent and waterloo about 20 yrars ago .

Jason,

The quickest, most direct route from Calais to Lossburg is diagonally through France, but this will inevitably mean lots of Autoroute Tolls ::). This route is about 440 miles, on top of which of course we have to get to Dover.

I've been doing some sums and to be honest I don't really know what I'm gonna do. Taking two cars instead of just the Abarth obviously means everything is doubled - ferry, petrol, tolls etc but I'm not sure what else to do to get the family over as it will be an uncomfortable (and almost certainly unbearable!) squeeze with the wife and three kids (aged 9, 11 and 13) all squashed into my Abarth. Not ideal - and something I'd rather avoid.

I was gonna take my 525i Sport Touring - but it's almost as bad on petrol as my Abarth (about 25 mpg) although it would be a worthy 'Support car' and kid transporter. Thing is that cost (yet again!) will be a serious factor - always is. ::)

The only other option is to fly the family out and hire a modern car for their use - I just don't know. Or fly them out and collect them from a local airport and hope that I can find a ride for them each day as passengers in others cars (they are pretty well behaved really - especially with strangers! ;) :D)

I've promised them all that they'll be coming so I can't let them down. :-\ They all wanted to come to Turin this year but I had to disappoint them, so Germany '10 is a must. :-*

 

There's not much in it distance-wise. The first route below through France is 430 miles and according to Autoroute should take about 6.5 hours without stops. The second route mainly via Belgium adds under 10 miles to the total but about an extra 20 minutes due to slightly more non-motorway roads. I seem to remember that the French motorways up to Lille do not have tolls but it's a long time since I've driven to Lille so I could either be wrong or they may have now introduced tolls on those roads.

I'd say for the sake of saving the French motorway tolls ( or the majority of the tolls  ???) it would be worth the extra 20 minutes or so. The extra 10 miles will add very little to the total fuel cost.

It would seem that we'll have at least 6 cars from the UK this year so there's enough of us to be discussing route options for a while  ;D We still don't know which route the Irish guys will take but if they decide to drive through the UK then our UK to Lossburg convoy will be even bigger so might take us even longer to decide on the route that most people will be happy with   8)

A third option (if there are prohibitive tolls to Lille) is to drive from Calais straight into Belgium towards Bruges on the A18. Problem with this option is having to drive round Brussels and there always seem to be traffic jams round Brussels. In fact I found driving round Brussels worse than driving round Paris and that's bad enough!  ::)

This option is about 12 miles longer than the 'direct' route through France but only about 15 minutes longer according to Autoroute. But I suspect the drive round Brussels is likely to add an hour to the total driving time.  :-[

Your right about brussels  theo ,but i did hit it coming out at 16.30 ish rush hour and driving rain ,all for a 20 min stop and a waffle ,got lost and ended going toward antwerp when i was staying near bruge ,along detuor.
 ???
 simion why don't your recomision the your 131 series 1  for your second car :)
jason

I've been to Brussels a few times at different times of the year and it's ALWAYS been raining  :o  ;D

I would say keep away from Brussels in the morning and evenings,but during middle of the day is ok.I was there 2 years ago.
I don't think i will be going through UK(Have to be changing euros to sterling :-\ :-\ ::)).In January/February i will know better,however it will be down to the cheapest ferry crossing from Eire to France for me ::) ;D.Eugene

ferrysavers.co.uk
norfolk line

 Dover -  dunkerque  cheaper than any other ,, i wonder why your own oars    ;D
Order results by:    Price    Date    Duration    Operator
   ?28.00    
Route    Depart    Arrive/Duration
Dover to Dunkerque    Thu 13 May 10 04:00    07:00    2hr 0min
Dunkerque to Dover    Tue 18 May 10 14:01    15:00    1hr 59min
Terms and Conditions       Add Hotel
Add Cottage
   ?28.00    
Route    Depart    Arrive/Duration
Dover to Dunkerque    Thu 13 May 10 04:00    07:00    2hr 0min
Dunkerque to Dover    Tue 18 May 10 16:01    17:00    1hr 59min
Terms and Conditions       Add Hotel
Add Cottage

That's very cheap at ?28 return  :o Seafrance to Dover works out ?53 and Eurotunnel, my preferred method, ?106. Disadvantage of Norfolk line to Dunkerque is the long 2 hour crossing as opposed to 1.5 hours for Seafrance and just 36 minutes for Eurotunnel.

Interestingly, the Autoroute suggested route to Lossburg from Dunkerque is through Belgium and round Brussels. It's 416 miles and will take 6 hours 20 minutes non-stop. So it looks like Norfolk line to Dunkerque is a good option as what we waste in the longer crossing we almost gain in shorter driving and it's by far the cheapest option.
 

It's a long way from Cherbourg to Lossburg (580 miles - 920 Km) so you're unlikely to do that in a day especially as most ferries from Ireland land in France around midday. You also have limited choice of ferries direct to France (they run every few days as opposed to ferries to the UK which run every few hours a day) so you may end up having to spend two days in France or an extra night in Lossburg or, even worse, miss the first day of 3ma10  :'(.  You also have the added cost of motorway tolls if driving across France.

I can also go Cork Roscoff but whichever way i go,i will have to stay somewhere over night,or sleep in the car :-\ :-\.Whatever happens,i am going anyway ;D ;).Eugene

Roscoff is even further away from Lossburg at 1115 Km :o That will certainly require an overnight stay in France somewhere. We are a friendly lot in the UK Eugene  ;D so don't discount the option of driving through the UK without at least some consideration and deliberation.  :D

My 131 is on Uk plates and i don't want to change as then i am liable for road tax here :-X :-X ::).So going through Uk is trouble for me(Nothing against Uk or Uk people Theo).
If i did consider going through Uk,i will still have to stay somewhere overnight.Really its a no win situtation,but i am going which is the main thing.
Also the ferry at Cork is only one hours drive from my home ;D,unless the fare is a crazy price ::).Eugene

Eugene duty pay the car thats ?50 change the taxation class to vintage & veteran get the gardai to stamp the form tax for a year ?48 & a new set of number plates ?20 grand total of ?118 & the car is legal & nct exempt, driving the car in Ireland on Uk plates is illegal & is liable for a fine of ?1250 if caught & get the car confiscated & if its not taxed they will do you for that also.

Sid,there are some people around here driving on foreign plates with over a year and a half.When there stoped by the coustoms,they just get them changed.My 131 hasen't been on the road since the GKMR run.Why should i give the state 118euro,when the car sits in the garage ::) ::).
In my area there not so strict,but if i am stoped and told to change to Eire plates,then i will do it :-\ :-\Eugene

good enough eugene you are lucky, its not the same up here though they would nail you no worries, i havnt seen a foreign regd car in ages plenty leftys with LH plates about.

back to uk routes  

Quote from: jasonh131 on Yesterday at 08:12:41 PM

  are we goinging for  a 6 am ferry going and 1700 back or later ?


I think we should certainly take the 6:00 am ferry out on the 13th. That will get us to Dunkerque at 9:00-ish am local time so we should be in Lossburg by 6:00pm allowing a couple of hours for fuel, comfort, coffee, lunch stops.

For the return trip, assuming we set off from Lossburg about 9:00 am, we should be back in Dunkerque by 6:00pm so to be on the safe side I'd suggest getting the 8:00 pm ferry. We gain an hour on the return so we'll be back in Dover at 9:00pm.
theo
  
who's book on this one  apart from me

   

So are we going with my suggestion of 6:00am out and 8:00pm on the way back? Is that what you've booked Jason?

yes thats it ;D

Before we commit to return routes was there any interest in visiting Guy Morenhout's museum/sales/garage establishment while we are in that general part of Europe?

I've e-mailed him and he would be very pleased to see us either on the outward or homeward journeys.  :)

May be i can incontrated you on calais when you arrive on calais , i don t know if the french person with a gray racing come on this 3ma ???
I can take a road with you on Calais and the suite ...

whos already booked or booking these ferry times add your names to the list  ;D
 jason 1 booked   
 

jason 1 booked
Theo  booked

I'm planning to book the same Theo and Jason but cannot quote a car reg number as I don't know the reg yet !!  :-\

Does anyone know if I can book on one reg plate and then change to another nearer the time. If not I'll contact Norfolk line.

Cheers  :)

any changes get massive penaltys on ferrysaver site ,you could try the nolfolk line direct

we are booked and proberly stay at the premier inn which is right on the dock the night before

We/I are/am not booked. :(

My parents have now decided that the journey is likely to be too much for them  :-\ so I am back to the likelihood of taking two cars ::). Five of us in the Abarth just isn't a plan - not all the way to Germany and back.

Still looking for alternatives but will prob book the Abarth crossing anyway soon to get the best rate. 8)

The cost of the Norfolkline Dover to Dunkirk crossings has now gone up by ?8. I suspect it will go up even more in January so anyone intending to book this crossing better do it soon or be prepared to pay more.

Just booked the ferry for the Abarth (so only going to bring one car) - but with five of us on board :o Cost was good too. Still only ?52.00 return for the car and all five of us. ;D A real bargain if you ask me. 8)

Not sure whether it will actually be all five of us going to Germany though as yet again I find myself looking for work. ::) Still, things are looking a little better for me than they did at the start of 2009 so I'm hopeful that I can find a new contract soon. If I can't then it might be only me travelling again, and if things get really bad then perhaps not even me :-\ :'( Hopefully though we'll all be going. 8)

I'll wait and see what the next few weeks bring work wise before booking any rooms at the hotel though :-\

I am open to be corrected here,but my understanding is that you can book/reserve the rooms now and pay later.I plan to book the rooms tomorrow monday as i am snowed in here now.Only the Lada Nivas,Tractors&Excavators is all that i can use to get out of my place caus of the snow.Eugene

Yes, the hotel bill will be settled  by individuals upon departure. And there's no penalty for cancellations/changes provided the hotel are told at least two days before arrival, so it's best to book early.


Traube Hotel and Restaurant 3ma10 accommodation offer: (http://www.131mirafiori.com/traube-lossburg.htm)

Single room ?46 per night

Double room ?41 per person per night
3rd person in double room ?30 per night
Tourist tax (charged separately) ?1.35  per day

The price includes:

Welcome drink
Rich breakfast buffet
4-course dinner menu
Use of the spa facility and the swimming pool (8x10 m)
Free reserved parking
Payment must be made individually by each guest upon departure.
Cancellations made up to 2 days before arrival will not incur a penalty.
Shorter or longer stays in connection with 3ma10 will be subject to the same terms and prices.

Should we be discussing this again now that we are less than 2 weeks away..? :)

Any preferences - Remembering how much we spent on French tolls last year I wouldn't mind not repeating the experience as much as possible ...other than to observe the comical efforts to pay tolls from RHD cars!  :)

Hi kev ,,the uk ers i think settled on Belgium and around Brussels as per theo's last map on first page
 are you coming through UK first or straight to France 

Yes Jacquie and I will be in Dover Wednesday night (12th) and on the quayside for the 6.0am sailing the following morning.  ;)

OK on the route but didn't someone suggest that the traffic around Brussels might be congested and be a potential holdup...? ???

So will Andy and Anita  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)in a hotel nearby 8)

 

Are we meeting on the the dock side (supposed to be there by 5am ) or some where on the way theo simon  ::)

We will aim to meet up with you all at the ferry port - It would be nice if we all get together before joining the queue for boarding. I'll park somewhere conspicuous... :)

I'd say best to meet on the ferry dock carpark so you won't have to wait for me again Jason!  ;)

Yes, I agree with Theo. Wait at the port - after 'check-in' ?

We'll be travelling down (across) to Dover in the dead of night so an early start for me.  ::)

Grand - Did we finalise the route across to Europe or will that happen on the boat over a coffee..or a cooked breakfats if it's not too rough on the high seas...! ;)

Don't say that...lynne just reminded me 'dont you get get sea sick'  id forgotten haven't been on a boat for 16 years  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

we staying at the premier inn wed night so if i dont find any thing more wrong wih my car we should be
there waiting sea sickness tablets in hand or stomach by that time

 
i think this is it from theo's map

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Dunkerque,+France&daddr=R0+to:A4+to:Lo%C3%9Fburg,+Germany&hl=en&geocode=FbS4CgMddEQkACm5IP_ZbYvcRzGgbWSBPvEKBA%3BFbbRCAMdCy5CAA%3BFcaY7gIdMuxeAA%3BFcSy4gIdDPyAACkd_5vMo8qQRzFAV9-lt2sfBA&gl=uk&mra=ls&sll=51.033082,2.375793&sspn=0.051494,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=7 (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Dunkerque,+France&daddr=R0+to:A4+to:Lo%C3%9Fburg,+Germany&hl=en&geocode=FbS4CgMddEQkACm5IP_ZbYvcRzGgbWSBPvEKBA%3BFbbRCAMdCy5CAA%3BFcaY7gIdMuxeAA%3BFcSy4gIdDPyAACkd_5vMo8qQRzFAV9-lt2sfBA&gl=uk&mra=ls&sll=51.033082,2.375793&sspn=0.051494,0.154324&ie=UTF8&z=7)

?  ???  Not sure what that's meant to be.  :-\

My vote goes for the route below and that's the one I've printed to follow. But "follow" will be my motto for this 3ma so I am following everyone else...   ;)

(http://131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3014.0;attach=5570;image)

I've discussed the Belgium route with a Belgian work colleague and he says to head for Charleroi and travel south past Brussels as the motorway around the latter city is a nightmare! Especially as we'll be there about 10am.

Might be best to do Poperinge - Lille - Charleroi - Namur and then pick up the route as shown Theo. My mate Johan seems to think that this would be better than risking the potential hours of hold up around Brussels.

We can sort out the finer points of the route over a coffee (and vallium) on the ferry. The kids are driving me mad already - I might stay at home at this rate! ::)

me and theo will just follow then:D :D
 no tolls   E42
The western end between Dunkerque and Lille follows a four lane dual carriageway toll free highway. Much of this has recently been resurfaced, but parts remain of subautoroute standard in terms of such details as junction lay-out and speed limits. Lille itself is at the centre of a major industrial area and is the meeting point of major routes. The passage of the E 42 along the urban highway is marked by several sharp bends and, especially for westbound traffic, unavoidable lane changes as well as speed cameras. Delays during peak commuting times are frequent.
[edit] Belgium

The route follows no fewer than six different autoroutes in succession during its passage through southern Belgium (Wallonia), linking all its major cites, from the provincial capital Mons, to Charleroi and Namur, along with the major commercial and university city of Li?ge and it's important cargo airport further to the east. The most easterly portion within Belgium was fully upgraded to autoroute standard only with the completion of the A27 at the end of the twentieth century: before that happened the main road included (subject to diversions on race days) a brief stretch that used the Formula One racing circuit at Spa. The final kilometers before the German frontier include towns and villages transferred from Germany to Belgium under the provisions of the 1919 Treaty of Versailles endorsed in 1925 by a referendum process not universally regarded as fair: over three quarters of a century later sign boards showing place names in French and German frequently have the French versions deleted by graffiti artists.