Starting Problems

[Kennedy of Sixmilebridge]

It's very common for these contacts inside the solenoid to get dirty and pitted causing bad contacts.

That's what I thought, then I changed the starter, and same thing....

Oh well, time to get some contact cleaner.

Thanks Theo.

[january 131CL]

I'm thinking a dud relay, but which one ?
I've had a few epsidoes of the water in the rad boiling up on me, that's why I changed the fan as I thought it was the problem, but it seems I was wrong.

I am not an electrical engineer so don't take my word for it.
Sometimes its the whole cooling set-up that needs a servicing.
Mine was traced to a faulty tempreature-switch.
Another occasion it was the bypass unit that needs servicing.
Have you looked into the thermostat?

[Kennedy of Sixmilebridge]

Sometimes its the whole cooling set-up that needs a servicing.
Mine was traced to a faulty tempreature-switch.

I bypassed that, as I'm aware of how "reliable" they are.
The fan runs all the time, that is if the relay alows it to.

I gave the relay for the fan (though there seems to be two ? )
a tap of a hammer (technical knocking) and it seems to be OK
for the last two 10 mile journeys the car completed.

Another occasion it was the bypass unit that needs servicing.

What's a bypass unit ?

Have you looked into the thermostat?

Once the car is moving, the car cools off normally.

[january 131CL]

I must agree then, its definately an electrical fault. Relays are cheap.

[Kennedy of Sixmilebridge]

OK, took the re-placement starter off again,
pulled the solenoid apart, and was surprised to see a one piece plunger inside


In the first starter I had taken apart for educational puropses
the plunger had been in two (broken) pieces.

I saw a normal amount of pitting on the contacts,
but cleaned them and smoothed them with emery paper grade800,
turned the contacts 180 degrees to allow the unworn halves
contact the connecting bit of copper in the solenoid,
smoothed the the contact strip with emery paper too,
re-assembled her, and she starts first tick, and a lot faster too.

Fan is still running 100 % of the time, after the technical knocking session last week.

Looks like I will be taking her to Italy for a few weeks on Friday !

Wish me luck.

[january 131CL]

Ken, did you need to un-solder the solenoid to take it apart. Could one unscrew something instead?

[Kennedy of Sixmilebridge]

Ken, did you need to un-solder the solenoid to take it apart. Could one unscrew something instead?

The solenoid end cover containing the contactors comes apart easily,
but I did have to bend the wiring that was soldered to the control terminal.

So for me, no soldering or un-soldering required.

[Kennedy of Sixmilebridge]

she starts first tick,

She went back to her old habits, only clicking every time,
but not turning over except for one in 20 attempts to start her..

I checked the earth strap, made no difference,
got a high discharge test done on the battery
which it passed with flying colours.

So as a last resort, I shimmed* the contactor poles in the solenoid end housing
with flat washers machined to fit into the slot.

This brought the poles a lot closer to the connecting bar of copper in the solenoid,
the thinking being that the plunger was worn a bit short, and this was a way to compensate.

She starts about 80 percent of the time now on first tip of the key,
but still needs up to 8 turns of the key to engage the rest of the time.

I'm hoping it will bed in time as mechanically it looks 100 percent.

PS.  FYI Brendan: Shim is NOT a man dressed as a woman*

[january 131CL]

Your starting problem may be a result of extended solenoid springs. These springs when extended will act to increase the pulling power needed to plunge the plunger and to contact the poles. If you can buy new, fit new ones if you can't solve the problem, then fit a starter relay similar to the ones fittet to classic Minis.

[Tas131]

What's your voltage like at the solenoid while cranking? I had a starter motor that continually gave me grief, I had to put a relay in to put full battery voltage to the solenoid when I turned the key. When I replaced the engine I used a different type of starter and the problem was gone.

[Kennedy of Sixmilebridge]

The voltage would indicate that when the solenoid only clicks,
but the starter does not turn,
that the solenoid is not making the connection. (12.20) Volts

When she starts and turns properly, the voltage momentarily dips a lot lower. (10.25 volts).

Would the classic mini solenoid bolt straight on ??

[january 131CL]

The classic minis don't use any solenoid. They are electrical starter relays. The top end of 131 solenoid looks like the starter relays. They don't bolt on to replace the existing solenoid plunger function but only serves to replace the relay function which was your problem. You have to think-up of a simple way to bolt it up to the car body nearest to the starter and battery.

[Kennedy of Sixmilebridge]

OK. The starting problem re-visited.

Instead of allowing all the solenoid voltage and amps to travel through the ignition switch,
I introduced a relay whereby the ignition switch only instructed the relay to allow
batt power provide power to operate the solenoid.

One solenoid, two fuses, and five feet of wire later,
I now have a car that starts everytime as sweet as a Lexus.

[sid131]

i like that one "sweet as a Lexus" or toyota one of the best

[january 131CL]

OK. The starting problem re-visited.
I now have a car that starts everytime as sweet as a Lexus.

Mine is fitted over to the engine block flywheel. With a new additional relay the wiring is no problem but I seem to have a thick gauge brown wire that seems to lead to the ignition switch somewhere into the dash. I did not record/forgot where this wire was supposed to end somewhere near the solenoid. Some help needed. It does not seem to be a negative wire.

Could it be a feed wire for the ignition relay after the ignition switch?