131mirafiori forum

I have for sale two front KONI adjustable shock absorber fit to Fiat 131 Racing, used but good condition. ( 87-2062 )
Price: 230,-EUR + shipping
If you have any question please ask me: mohacsi.zsolt@mail.datanet.hu

Moha

http://www.koni-shock-absorbers.co.uk/koni-product-list.php?md=89
new for a price of used! how about that?

GOOD MAN !

Miro

That's for rears. I got Yellow Koni front struts out of the US. New Old Stock, with freight for less than 200 Euro, that was about 2 years ago. The way the yanky dollar has crashed I imagine they'd be cheaper now.

Moha, you come up with some good bits, but I always think the prices you ask are unrealistic. I don't know what supply and demand is like in Europe or the UK, but 131 bits don't fetch those sort of prices in Australia.

Koni dont make those front struts anymore so it whatever the buyer is willing to pay, i probably would try to haggle with the guy but i won a pair of mew ones on ebay uk this year fierce bidding & i paid quite a bit for them. as for the k&n filter thats madness as they are only ?55 new.

one could always go for kayaba shocks, two way gas adjustable for around 50e a piece

But koni is THE shock for the 131 sport

yeh, rihgt. that's why it's 200e.

kayaba shocks are excellent. i have 'em on my lada for 2yrs now, 60k kms, still like new. all japanese cars have 'em as factory installed shocks.

my toyota has kyb shocks, are they the same? kybs are expensive also, inserts for the celica were almost ?200.

yup, that's the same stuff. until couple of years ago they were branded "kayaba" and now they're branded "kyb" by kayaba motor company

The "For sale wanted" is my view is a "friendly second hand part exchange" and informatio exchange on who sells what around he world  ,rather than a point of commercial sales. I would hope that the commercial bits  are placed in  "business section" .

Some fora have a rule that whatever is advertised  on ebay and the like cannot be posted on the "for sale wanted". by the person who is selling them.

Sorry Moha, but I agree with Tas 131 that your prices are over the market. I and I believe you are selling this (very good stuff !) for the prices you bought them  and thus I believe they belong in the bushiness section...

Miro
   

Bilstein B6 is in my opinion THE shock for the price paid for it for 131. Koni does not work even half as good as B6(at least the shocks that i have tested)

Well Thomas i always thought Konis or ohlins were the best, but that was for the bikes, there were the ones everyone wanted, wouldnt have thought bilsteins, but you have been there!

Bilsteins are certainly popular with the Escort boys and are also fitted to many high end cars such as Mercedes for example. Question is can you obtain Bilstein dampers for a 131?

Mirafioriman,

I have adjustable Bilsteins on the front and non adjustable Bilsteins on the rear.
 I will see if I can find the model number for you.

Miro

I do not know if you can get them made for 131 but making a custom strut is not a problem if you know how to use MIG or TIG welder. MAking coilovers is a piece of cake if you can get cheap coilovers from for example VW golf. As a strut inserts you can use Opel Astra GSi front struts. Probably revalving will be required to match springs them with springs.
 

Have to say I have always rated KONI as rubbish. I have had them fitted on 3 of my cars (not by choice) they were fitted to cars I bought. They are way to stiff, and will wreck the body shell with stress cracks.

I would much prefer standard shocks.

I would definitely agree they are very stiff. My 131 that has them fitted (by me) rides very hard. I did not realise how hard until I drove a standard 131 Supermirafiori. There was a big difference.

Chris i think thats the idea harder & stiffer with lowering springs & the car handles better.

Actually that is not true,at least not on the roads that you can find on most special stages(rather bumpy with some jumps). The aim is to keep the tire on the road . The rolling of the body you can set up with proper anti sway bar(original 131 is pretty good). Of course some stiffness is required but the shock should "eat" the bumps instead of making the car jump. Bilstens can be set up so that it is not too hard on bump and has good rebound damping, this really helps a lot. Even fitting bilstein with standard springs will improve handling, the other thing is that a bit of negative camber will make the car cornering better(about 1-1,5 deg).
I am no saying that konis cannot be adjusted properly but i just have not found any shock(even adjustable) that made the rally car handle fine.
Ohlins is much more expensive option and it is usually 2 way or 3 way adjustable, the good alternative to ohlins or proflex is HP Sporting made in Czech Republic, they have very good reputation and can also be made as 3 way adjustable with remote gas canister. They are made all to order so no problem to get them for 131 but it costs about 2000euro for a set 4 of complete uprights with springs.
For road use and budget rally car Bilstein B6 is really the best you can get for the money paid.

well Thomas i am building a road car not a rally car & she will have Konis all round & i will be happy, whereas if i had bilsteins i wouldnt be as happy! do you get what i mean?,
like my celica i lowered & uprated the shocks with gabriel on the rear & kyb up front & i am happy with it its a sometimes road car (rest garaged) not a rally car.

I agree with Thomas here and that's from personal experience. My car is lowered with Koni springs and adjustable Koni dampers front and back and it's too stiff. It's very good on a track but bounces too much on bumpy roads. I was trying very hard to keep up with Kevin on some of our Scottish spirited driving in 3ma08 and while I could keep up or even catch him on the straights I could see him easily getting away on the bendy bits. Kevin's car would go round the corner without much fuss but my car would bounce wide and quite alarmingly at times. I am not sure but I think Kevin's Sport has standard suspension. Whatever it has it was noticeably better at going round corners on rough roads than mine.

Yes I agree with theo - standard suspension is the best and definately the way to go on a road car.

When I restored a 131 sport in 1990-91  I fitted koni adjustable front struts and wasnt that impressed to be honest, in my opinion the BOGE oil units for the sport/Racing were much better on the road, only thing is I havent got any part numbers for them and if you get it wrong you will get the ones for the pushrod cars and they are soft and horrible

Ok Theo so that makes Brensports 131 the quickest cos he can whip kevs 131s ass  ;) ;)

Hi Chaps,

         Would you consider that what is one persons fast is another's pottering along, what I mean is, when Toad was a road car it would crash about until it got up to around 45mph, after that it all started to work. Reduced roll no crashing, no diving, it just all smoothed out.  The point, whether its Bilstein, Koni or what ever, if there not adjusted and sprung to match then what do people expect. Lowered springs are likely to be stiffer, and so the damping will need to be revised to match. You then drive the car to the shops or 3m met ever so nicly, and find the car is hard, that what you made it.   Take the same car, give it some tyres to play with and drive the 131 as it was intended in moded form and it will transform its self.  Suspension hopping, the car has more grip that the suspension can handle.

   So for Sunday, day outers, don't lower and stiffen, It may look the part but you have to decide, you can't have it both ways.

 And when some one comes back and says well mine's lowered, that just means its ride is acceptable to you, not necessarily the next guy.

   With Kind Regards

          Roger................

Hey guys, interesting reading. I was just deciding and looking around for what dampers to fit my project car when i found these new old stock BOGE front oil units.
They are numbered BOGE 100 929 (Fiat part 27-520-4) for a ?74 -?78 car and BOGE 100 924 (Fiat 27-938-0) for ?78 -?84 car. The black one is the newer type and has longer both outer and inner tube.

Re those boge struts, the first one is for pushrod and maybe the second, as I recall the strut was special for sport and had its own number or prefix, only speaking from my own experience and I wasnt a sunday driver as I used to drive these cars flat out, I Did look at some of these sports that were for sale with the lowered suspension and they all drove pretty awful but even if you did manage to improve on the original handling which I doubt  it would be pointless as anything with a suspension thats lowered would be a pain over all the speed humps we have here in the uk

That was the thing in the sports day, rock hard suspension ,i had it on my super 200lbs springs ....
 i remember a prog about the cosworth rs 500 going over dingle dell at brands hatch with rock hard suspension which use to take off , then later with a modern match suspension setup the mondeo's  swallowed up the bumps and curbs and take it faster and  almost flat with the suspension absorbing on the impact and not the car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NrmvbA0iA&feature=PlayList&p=59E5201199C9699E&index=0&playnext=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NrmvbA0iA&feature=PlayList&p=59E5201199C9699E&index=0&playnext=1)  1min 12

Hi
  Can I ask is the idea to make the cars look pretty, or to make them handle for the enthusiast driver? The 131 will oversteer like a pig if the body roll is aloud to build up on corner entry, this can be considerably reduced for a much nicer, predictable car to drive. I'm wondering whether each driver should consider whether there car is for pretty shows or driver fun, Cortina's look pretty, Mirafiori have a competition heritage. It?s confusing the new owners when people are making suggestions, but trying to achieve to opposite ends.

   Regards
             
         Roger...................

As far as road use goes, I personally have not had any trouble with 131 sport standard setup if its all in good condition, I  agree the power steering versions of the later mk3 super are a bit light on the steering but you get used to it, now if you were on about the brakes they were rubbish but again a lot better with fiat original pads but still rubbish

in my experience, just put some fat soft compound tyres and handling is transformed.

Hi Chaps

       Have you not noticed the rear end brakes away very fast after about 30Deg of slip. I think the reason for this is the top links are steering the back axle slightly. More rear end grip gives more roll and more rear end steer.

       Roger............

I used to steer 131s by using the power through the rear which is what made them fast through the twisty bits so this is a positive thing not a negative

I agree, for loose,  but when you are on top end tarmac tyres, the brake away point can be very rapid, and sideways is slow on tarmac, well apart from a little/small angle of drift. 

         Roger...........

on road its ok but you need tyres where the walls are strong or the car will wallow like a boat

Do you mean stiff side walls, or low profiles tyres?  the tallest I've ever tried are 60's  Toad and Poo (family Cars)  were both used on 50's

Limited slip diff & sideways up the road ;D ;D ;D

fulda y2000+ 205/60
soft sidewall

60 section tyres, but a lot of these tyres nowadays are very soft walled so they move before the car does, Nick havent had one with a limited slip diff so couldnt comment on those

Maybe its the difference the slipper makes, which was allot, lots of extra grip that is trying to over load the suspension. There is also the point that if larger tyres are put on the normal 131 rims, this will cores the side wall to roll around, I think Toad was on about 8inches as a road car.

      But there you go, its all just different approaches to the same problem.

               

most of us here don't do rally driving, just sometimes over entusiastic road use. for me 205/60 is just fine, tyre is too wide for sidewall to bend too  much and they still provide decent ride comfort. lower profile tyres are fine for racing, but for everyday use they tend to make the ride rock hard.
btw, for 205 tyre 7" wide rim is optimal. on standard 5,5" rims 195 is max

Ya agreed,  but 8" stiffens/quicken the tyre response.   But then this is probable why every one said I had the put Toad on the track and not wast it, maybe it was a little over the top as a road car, but we used it ever day as family transport. In fact, the nurse was quite surprised to try to put my first born in the car through the roll cage bars. (4door)  The engine was nothing to shout about (150ish) but it did handle and brake well.
  Going to build another road one later so we will all be in the same basket again.