131mirafiori forum

I've seen this car awhile back, and at the time I thought it was a regulalr american 2-door 131 upgraded with the sport package. Was interested in purchasing it, but then I soon found out that he was asking well over $15,000.00 cdn. Now he has it listed on his web-site and is claiming that it is 1 of 2 in the world ???. Can some-one shed some light?

I don't know the asking price now.


http://www.andyspiders.com/sale.html

Hi FiatCan,

IMHO it most certainly isn't 1 of 2 in the World, nor is it an Abarth. Looks like a standard 131 Racing/Sport Walter Rohrl Limited Edition to me - a rough one recently sold on German eBay for ?2,425 (Eur 3,113) - with after market Cromodora alloys.

Looks externally like a Sport as the A and C pillars are black (which many a home conversion misses) and it looks like it's the correct orange, but the interior is either missing or incorrect, as I can see neither front nor rear headrests - and it should have both.

It's got the wrong door mirrors and the front grille has been sprayed black (should be grey if 'stock'), but I still reckon it's a genuine 131 Racing/Sport - it even has the orange seat belts.

I'd welcome a bit more information and a few more pics of the car - that way we could be 100% certain. Also the chassis number (from the top of the suspension turret - if a late 1980 model will probably start ZFA131A*****) and model code (on the information plate at the top of the front panel - which, if it's a Sport, should be 131AK).

This price of Cdn$15,000 equates to about ?7,500 sterling, which I'd say was a bit on the high side, however it would still be very rare in Canada. If the price was closer to Cdn$10,000 it would be a good investment, but it's certainly not an Abarth - Stradale or otherwise! ::)

Still, it looks like a nice, straight, original car, and if provided with the correct interior, would be a car I'd covet ;) If you've got the cash and can do a deal, I go for it, as 131 Sports don't come up that often in Canada do they, and certainly not in this condition. ;D ;D

Hi Guys - I know this car having seen it on Ebay USA before. From my notes it's a 1979 car with 35k miles. No record of asking price though.

I've got some more pics and one possible theory to support the "1 of 2 in the world" claim is that it is possibly a European spec car imported by the official importers and then made into a dealer special for promotional reasons.

It does look good though and from the pics seems to have led a cherished life - Nice extras, especially the wheels, exhaust, steering wheel and roof spoiler. Shame about the boot spoiler!? ;D It also looks quite a straight car (how the spoiler/bumper/arches feature aligns is often a sign of whether the car was crashed or restored, poorly).

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Mirafioris/08_1_b.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Mirafioris/9a_1_b.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Mirafioris/13120brava20abarth20005.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Mirafioris/ca_1_b.jpg)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Mirafioris/8b_1_b.jpg)

But it has chromed "pulls" on the door handles while a Sport should have black anodised ones. That would imply to me that it was a converted car albeit a good conversion where the A and C pillars were blackened. Plus the front of the car is riding too high also implying this is a standard car with Sport trim added. And it has a bonnet from a diesel 131....

It's good to see some more pics, but in actual fact they only add to the queries :-\

T, I don't think the front of this car is any higher than my own Racing. Hasn't your car been slightly lowered? I've seen chrome lever pulls on a Sport before, but I agree that generally they are black.

The 'Brava Abarth' stickers on the rear spoiler are really over the top :o and I don't like the diesel bonnet either, but I'm still convinced it's a WR Sport/Racing.

This car has air con too and appears to also have red dials, which is a bit unusual.

The only way of properly deciding the argument is to get the numbers I referred to in my posting above.? 8)

My instinct says genuine Sport ...but I dont understand why you think it's a WR version Si.  ??? Roof & boot spoilers are wrong, wheels are wrong, missing side stripes and additional driving lights, in fact all of the WR extras/variations are missing. ???

My instinct says not genuine Sport. Mirrors are wrong, door handles are wrong, bonnet is wrong, interior is wrong, spoilers are wrong (standard Sport/Racing did not have spoilers), rear badges are wrong...

The car is a Brava destined for the US market where the Sport was not available so maybe the US importers made a couple of specials by adding the Sport trim and the bonnet from a Diesel to give the car a more American Power-Bulge?

As Simon says (feel like breaking into a song as I wrote that...  ;D) the numbers on the turret and info plate will tell us a lot more...

From what I can recall the original seats are not available, and at the time two race version seats were installed. He had also mentioned? that it was a signed version? (WR???). The engine is not the original and was actually going to be replaced with a modified 2.0ltr as the one in the car was burning oil.?
Yes Simon this is a very rare treat to see this style of 131 here and as all you know I am itching to get my hands on one, but at what price? This car has an unknown history and is possiblly a U.S based 131 with alot of "plastic surgery" as stated. I would of jumped at the opportunity to purchase  this car if it was an original 131 sport in original state, but  it surley looked like a modified car at the time.

Maybe another visit should be schedueled to retreive more info??

The reason I think it's a WR is the script writing on the drivers side C-pillar. ?:-\

My instinct says it's a Sport/Racing too - but perhaps not a WR(?).

I agree Theo that there are a number of items that are wrong with this car, such as bonnet and interior, but things like wheels are easy to change, and those shown on the car were very readily available in North America (from 124 Spiders and Coupes) in their day.

If, as you suggest, it's a 'dealer demonstrator' type of vehicle, there may well have been only two, but I'm not so sure. Why the diesel bonnet when the 131, even as a series 1, was only available as a twin cam in the US and Canada. The gear change and centre console shout Sport to me (short throw, remote change of this period was ONLY available on the 2000TC Sport), but Theo, the front screen doesn't have a top tint, and all Sports and Racings did have.

As I said, the pics just add to the confusion. ?:-\

Of course, if the engine has a compressor (supercharger) on it the cat would be well and truly among the pidgeons, as this car would then be a VX! :o Worthy of the Abarth badging, but if it's got a tall diesel engine.......... ???

FiatCan - get us the numbers and put us out of our misery ;) Without them we are simply guessing! 8)

Ok, FC's reply crossed with mine, and we now know the engine is not a diesel ;)

I still feel that the car left the factory as an orange 131 Racing WR Ltd Ed. Since then it has been seriously robbed of the good stuff, but someone has tried to cover up these losses by fitting the incorrect (although superficially the same) parts (i.e. roof spoiler).

FC - I don't know how you can stay away :o :o I want to go and take a look myself - but I don't think the wife would be too keen on me taking atrip to Ontario on just a whim. Venice, Italy is OK, but not Ontario! ;D ;D

When you go, note the chassis number from the top of the turret, paint code (noted on both the general info plate on the top of the front panel and inside the boot (trunk) lid), and model type.

After a breif phone call i was able to get some more info.

This is one of two cars that were made for the U.S. They were sold as 131 Abarth's. They did come with Abarth transmissions, but because of U.S emission standards they were equiped with a standard 2.0ltr emissioned engine. The trim package is exactly that of the pictures less the wheels. The european deisel bonnet was standard for these two cars. Our freind purchased both cars from a local dealer who purchased the cars from Florida in the early 90's. The cars were owned by a U.S rally driver (Constentino??) something like that. One of the cars was scraped and this is the soul survivor. The interior was faded and brittle and was the cloth(corduroy) with the red stripes. The seats are now missing. The original color was white. As for the WR emblims they were added as the owner himself had been a rally car racer. The car is in storage and if the money is right it will be sold with a new engine and interior seats. These two cars have been mentioned in the abarth "bible" ??? I don't know what book this is.
Hopefully in the near future I'll be able to vist this car agian and get the tag numbers that Simon requested.

Kev, you were right, this car was on ebay before

I don't know what i'm thinking now, but at a price tag of just under $20,000.00 cdn. I would like to try to source out some more info.

Thoughts?

O'k I just googled "Abarth Bible" and the author is A. Consentino ???

Does anyone have this book?

Getting the history on these cars might be some fun :o

Never heard of the car or the author FC but it sounds like it would be an interesting read ..if in English!

Another picture of this special car...and possibly the elusive and now scrapped sister car, although with slightly different spec (roof spoiler, wheels, bonnet, etc) and it does have the c pillar script. Note that in "our" car the large Fiat Laurel wreath seems to have been lost in later years - In my opinion these pictures pre-date the later Ebay ones which I posted this morning.

A beautiful pair of cars in my opinion and does a lot to support the view that orange is a very suitable colour for these cars as long as it is not faded.? ;)


(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Mirafioris/Orange131inOntario.gif)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Mirafioris/Orange131sinOntario.gif)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/kev131/Mirafioris/Orang131sinPntarioRearQ.gif)

I've never seen orange seat belts on a Sport before - very unusual and in my opinion inconsistent with the Fiat policy of seat belt colours matching bumper/arch/spoiler colours.

Some of his literature.

FAZA, I think is the name he is linked to?
Not much in regards to 131's, but i'm sure he has some books exclusively to the 131's including the two i'm looking for.

When I purchased my first 131, I remember the car having a few of these "FAZA" books. They were like a after-market parts book that you can order from.

http://www.fazaabarth.info/FAZA1.html

Interesting to see in the bottom pic of the cars side by side that they have the roof spoilers fitted differently ::) but these pics show that both cars were probably WR Editions when new 8) even if they had differing bonnets too ;)

I can perhaps add some info to this.

Al Costentino is/was heavily involved with Abarth's U.S. racing programs back in the day.  His company, FAZA, for a long time was the only place to get genunie Abarth parts.   Al him self was a driver.  A google search does turn up his extensive driving record.  As Abarth/Fiat/Lancia ceased any activity in the U.S.,  Al got a bit ... well... grumpy.  He still has an extrodrinary cache of rare go fast parts for all types of Fiats, Lancias and Abarth.

When Abarth passed away,  Al began remaking the Abarth exhaust parts under the name Devil, or FAZA.  I have one of these unit for my Beta Coupe.  The quality is fantastic!  I suspect many of the parts he still offers may be his remakes of the originals.

The "Bible" is Al's catalogue, Abarth history and memoir.  There has been i believe 18 editions of it over the years.  I've seen several and they truely are a wealth of info, vintage racing pics, etc.  Al is given to long winded rants about various topics and those are of course included in the bibles.  Interesting reads either way.

As for the cars in question,  it is entirely possible that Al had a couple cars custom built for him.  Or, the factory built him a one off special as a thank you for the years of service.  Looking critically at it, those are Euro bumpers.  No way those were admitted to the U.S. at the time of manufacture.  We had 15 mph crash requirements thus the huge U.S. spec bumpers.  Anyone recognize the signature on the hood of the car with the Fiat Wreath?

Dan

Thanks Dan, very interesting story and insight to these mystery cars.  I never thought of the bumper problem and you are of course right that the Euro Spec bumpers would never have been allowed into the US on new cars. Presumably it is legal for after-market bumpers not to meet the crash tests? If so, the bumpers reinforce my guess that these were standard US spec cars which had the Sport trim added to them afterwards.


The Signature on the bonnet (which is the same as the ones on the blackened C-pillars) is "W Rohrl" for Walter Rohrl (http://www.answers.com/Walter+Rohrl+?gwp=11&ver=2.3.0.609&method=3).

I have a couple of these FAZA Bibles however I'd have to say that I always considered them more of a sales brochure for the US - which in fairness it is.

I never found them very relevant for the the UK or the 131 - but if you own a 124 Spider or an X1-9 they are alright.

Yes, these orange 131 'sports' are very European, and I had noticed that they wear non-USA bumpers, but I find it very hard to believe that the Factory in Italy made specials for just one man. I would believe it however if the importer (was it Fiat Roosevelt?) supplied a couple of European 131 Racings with 'all the trimmings' for this guy, as they were also responsible for the 124 Spider Turbo 8)

I think the script signatures are Walter Rohrl, but these are a red herring as FiatCan says in his posting that a past owner added these.

Theo, I'm not sure how Z78's posting reinforces your belief that these are modified US cars? I understand that the emission strangled 2 litre 'motor' would be standard in a US supplied car, but how would the standard Euro bumpers fit to, and work with, the 'shock absorbing' 15 mph mountings of the USA spec car?

I am now totally at a loss as to the origins of these two cars in terms of what the 'base model' was. By the description of the seats (cordoroy with red strips), it sounds as though they were fitted with genuine Abarth Stradale interiors originally, but the Racing never was. Also, they were origninally white - but neither the Racing nor Abarth was available in white.? ??? ???

I must admit that I'm leaning towards your understandings T, but I'm not totally won over yet? :-\ This guy Al Whatever-his-name-is clearly had access to a number of Fiat parts importers and could easily have obtained all of the parts needed to carry out a very convincing Racing look-a-like, and through it all, these cars are (in hindsight) perhaps a little too much like a 131 Sport than a 131 Sport!

I suppose these are actually 131s?? ??? ???

Confused from Farnborough, UK :)

I believe, or I should say guess these cars were fitted with the Sport trim after they were imported into the US. European specification cars would not have been allowed to be sold as new in the US. The engines were apparently US specification with all the emission controls fitted so the cars were originally intended for the US market and must have been to the legally required US specification and the European bumpers would not meet that specification so must have been fitted (by first easily removing the US bumper "shock absorbers") after being imported into the US. Q.E.D. 

Yes Simon, I am also very confused and I have to agree with Theo in regards to the bumper issue. I guess we could speculate all we want (which I'm actually enjoying) , but I'll have to try to get more info on this vehicle or find the article in the "Abarth Bible" that will give us the history on these cars. I will also try to get the Plate I.D. numbers. I'm thinking that this car once had the U.S. bumpers and that they were changed to the sport version, but do the U.S. bumpers actually work with the rest of the sport trim, and would it of actually looked any good ???

Sadly the U.S. bumpers never looked good on anything!   ;D   A special series by the importer could make sense.  There are 3 Lancia Scorpions here that have special equipment to commerate one of the Pan American races.

 Or... perhaps these cars were brought over for the Olympus Rally?  1986, last WRC event in America.  And there were a pair of factory 131's racing.  Maybe they were promotional cars that were left behind?

Or,  an ambitious owner purchased a pair of W.R's and began to mod his cars??  I am glad to see something like that on these shores.

Dan

Why everybody makes always such a big story about the WR version.
It is actually nothing more as a few stickers, spoilers and 2 foglights!

In my opinion it looks like a quite genuine sport with a few other detalils. I also watched at the clocks. Aren't there more things changed on a lot of other cars??
And diesel bonnets I have still in my storage, that's 4 bolts and fitted!

Alfred Cosentino had a few books more. I couldn't find anything about this particular car there.