Mirafiori 1600 upgrade to 2000/TC

[wak131]

Hi, I decided to change my car that is in a poor state half-eaten by rust with a "new" one claiming just 94000Km (~60K miles) and original state. It is a 1980 Mirafiori 1600 and its being sold for some 1025 euro. But I love my 2000/TC and don?t want to lose it, so my plan is to upgrade the 1600 to a 2000 Super.
So I?m asking for advice whether there are some dificulties in the process of changing the engine with gearbox and if also a change of the propeller shaft and rear axle is required..?
Thanx for replys

[mirafioriman]

I did this same swap. Very easy. Currently I still have the 1600 axle and diff, but I would recommend using the 2 litre axle, as I find that you run out of each gear too quickly with the 1600 one. I also believe that the 2 litre axle is wider. I fitted the 2 litre front suspension too, therefore giving me power steering. 

[wak131]

Thanx for a pleasing reply.
But I?m afraid the same swap did already the previous user of my todays 2litre. The gears seem to be quite short as I can cruise 60km/h in 5th gear at 1500rpm with no problem. At 80km/h its 2500rpm.
Do you have the same revs?
In this case i would need to find a 2litre axle with a longer ratio, ideally a disc brake fitted axle from a 132 or Argenta, but that would be a task here.

[mirafioriman]

Finding a disc braked rear axle is difficult here too. In the UK at least discs were only fitted to early 132s. Later ones and the Argenta only had rear drums here. I think the gears are too short. 100 Km/h is 60 miles an hour, if you are doing 2500 RPM at 80Km/h I think that is too high. The 2 litre twin cam has much more torque and you do not get the best for it if you are always using high revs. I plan to fit a two litre rear axle to my 131 but have not got around to it yet! It is not that urgent for me as the car is currently in dry storage.

[bolger]

I think Haynes claims that 1600 OHV and 2000 TC diffs are the same.

[wak131]

Yes, it would be a luck to find some discs rear axle, but on the other side there must have been a good reason why Fiat didn?t fitted the later 132s or even the 131 Sports or Volumetricos with disc brakes on the rear..
So I?ll probably do with a new set of rear drums if at least I find a standart 2L rear axle.
On carfolio.com I found the same 3.9 final drive for 1600 ohv, 1600 dohc and 2000, none for 1600 ohc, that I?ll be buying.
But on a copy of Italian manual there is a 3.58 ratio for a 2L manual and 1,6 automatic
and 3.42 for a 2L automatic. I wonder what is the ratio for a 2,5D automatic as it should be the longest one..

[mirafioriman]

My car was originally a Series 3 1600CL 5 speed with the single OHC 1600 engine. It is now fitted with the 2 litre DOHC engine but same 5 speed box and rear axle. The 1600 OHV cars may have had the same rear axle ratio if they were 4 speed, but having the 2 Litre with 5 speed means you benefit from a different axle ratio. As far as I know the only reason Fiat went to drums and not discs on the rear was for reasons of cost. Just like on the early series 2 Supermirafioris the interiors were all velour, and on the later ones they replaced parts of the seat material with vinyl. When it got to the Series 3 Supermirafiori most had rubbish seat material that shreaded in no time!

PS I'm away at the moment so I am not able to consult my manuals and data, I will do so when I get back. Also, I have to say that my Supermirafiori with it's 2 litre twin cam has standard 131 brakes and they are excellent in my opinion.

[wak131]

I colected these ratios for given cars:
131 1.6L man ...4.1
131 1.6L aut   ...3.58
131 2.0L man  ...3.58
131 2.0L auto  ...3.42

132 2.0L man    ...3.73
132 2.0L aut      ...3.42
132 2.5D man     ...3.73
132 1.8ES man    ...4.1 disc
132 1.6GLS man    ...4.1 disc

Argenta 2.0 SX/VX  ...3.42 disc 257/227
Argenta 1.6           ...4.1
Argenta 2.5D           ...3.73
Argenta 2.5TD         ...3.15 disc

Whoo, have to find this Argenta TD axle

[djape1977]

sorry for intrusion but your data doesn't seem to be all correct.

i've driven argenta 2.5td and it had rear drum brakes.

i now have 132 2.5diesel and 132 2.0petrol and diesel's diff ratio is definately longer than on 2.0.

also, i've fitted rear disc brakes from 132 1800gls on my 132d's original rear axle, and it's no big deal, a day's job. it brakes much better now.

i also have a '82. 131 1600cl (sohc) and 5 speed box, diff seems to be very long ratio, compared to my lada 2104 1.8tc with 4.3 diff. much bigger diference than 4.1 to 4.3.

[eugene]

Any chance you could post a picture of your Lada!! .Eugene

[djape1977]

1995 lada 2104 with 1.8tc (111bhp) from steyr fiat 132 special and gearbox from 132 1800gls and many other modifications http://lada-klub.com/viewtopic.php?t=1182
shortest possible diff ratio 4.3, shortened springs, gas shocks, 7*13 rims and 205/60/13 tyres... 0-100km/h 9sec. 100-170km/h (top speed) further 12sec. abarth intake and exaust manifolds and cams, 55mm exaust piping...

by the way, how do i make a picture appear in my posts instead of just a link?

[january 131CL]

sorry for intrusion but your data doesn't seem to be all correct.

i've driven argenta 2.5td and it had rear drum brakes.

i now have 132 2.5diesel and 132 2.0petrol and diesel's diff ratio is definately longer than on 2.0.

also, i've fitted rear disc brakes from 132 1800gls on my 132d's original rear axle, and it's no big deal, a day's job. it brakes much better now.

i also have a '82. 131 1600cl (sohc) and 5 speed box, diff seems to be very long ratio, compared to my lada 2104 1.8tc with 4.3 diff. much bigger diference than 4.1 to 4.3.

In another thread there were questions raised on brake balance. Do you have brake balance problems? Please inform us of your experience.

[djape1977]

rear brakes are much stronger now than before.

according to MOT brake test, front brakes are 2.8-3 on the scale ( don't know what those numbers actualy mean) and rear are 1.2-1.4 (drums were 0.8 and front same as now)

in real life it means that wery strong braking on wet road may lock up rear wheels sooner than front. if youre experienced driver it's no problem at all. wider rear tyres (205/60/14) also help to compensate for that.
thing that fascinates me is that since i installed rear discs i never had brakes overheating problems as before and high speed braking (150km/h-0) is excellent.

[wak131]

sorry for intrusion but your data doesn't seem to be all correct.

Thanx for your input with the experiences, these are positive informations for me.

The carfolio.com page where I was picking the values seems to have a lot of mistakes and/or there maybe also varieties in used diff ratios for cars with the same engine I think.

At first I?ll probably meassure the diffs ratio by hand and see whats the situation before starting a search for a new axle.

[djape1977]

rear axle from steyr fiat 132 special. limited slip diff (4.1) and disc brakes all in one

upper and lower control arms same as on 131, panhard rod mount needs to be fabricated and welded on to fit on 131.

no i wont sell it, i need it for my 132 drift car project? , and it would be a bit comlicated to send it from serbia to ireland?