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Author Topic: Lancia thema engine in a 131?  (Read 9092 times)
sikkane
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« on: May 14, 2010, 08:44:56 PM »

Hey im wondering if that engine will fit in my fiat 131 without any BIG mods, its a turbo engine,

if anyone else have used that engine in a fiat 131 if you have seen it plz give link if you have seen it on the internett

thx sikkane
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TOAD
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 09:56:44 PM »

Hi Sikkane,

Try this for a start,

   Crankshaft does not support gearbox input shaft, will need machining.

   Thermostat on rear of head will go into heater space.

   Turbocharger will need to be swung up away from the bulkhead.

   Throttle body faces bulkhead.

   131 sump is different to Thema  (Oil pump on front) flange different.

   Use Thema starter, I think this may work on 131 box with Thema Flywheel.

   Engine mounts 131 onto block.
   
   Integrale inlet gets close to strut tower, so Thema may be the same?

   Thema will bolt to 131 box,

   Use the 230 clutch, be careful you need a push clutch NOT the pull type that the      Thema comes with.  Clutch fork should work with this.

   Lag the exhaust and Turbo to stop the fuse box catching fire.

   Try a Cosworth intercooler in front of the radiator.

   Make up throttle cable.

   Clutch cable from 131

   I should try to re-weld the throttle body flange to the other end of Plunham.

   I think Guy said the gearbox may be good for 300bhp

   Prop-shaft rubber needs to be new or will fail very quickly.

   Back axle WILL FAIL, teeth will blow of Pinion  Use ford high-bread.

   Balance shaft engine weighs far more than 131  ( suspension needed )

   Make sure you get all the fuel enrichment and other vales from the Thema.

  Map sensors on the bulkhead.


            Hope that gets you going, see EVOTOAD on you tube or,  other forum
posting is = project Corner + Group5 131 Thundersaloon project ? 1 2 3 ?
 engine picture on there somewhere.

     Regards

             Roger..............
   
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Testament
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2010, 04:35:01 AM »

The starter motor doesnt fit as its on the wrong side. Apparently a 1600OHV 131 bellshousing has the starter motor on the other side and will solve this and still bolt to the 131 gearbox?

132 diff is your other option - they bolt into a 131 and are a fair bit stronger. They use all the mounts except for the panhard rod which you will have to weld on a new mount to the axle housing but thats not too difficult.

toad has a pretty comprehensive list there but there is a bit of fabrication and problem solving required as its not "just" a bolt in job.

The other option is to take the head and pistions from the thema motor and put them on a 131 or 132 two litre block. this will require blocking off some of the oil galleries to the head and getting the right cam, crank and auxiliary driveshaft pullies so it all marries up.
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TOAD
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2010, 09:50:36 AM »

Hi Testament,

   When you use the old ohv bellhousing, these is a difference in the casting on the back. I think its a piece of casting that pushes against the first motion shaft bearing to keep it pushed into the box.  This can be re-machined as was my own.  This does allow the 131 starter to work, but still needed the side of the balance shaft bump releaving a little, I wondered if the Thema starter on the DOHC bellhousing would bolt up?  Havant tried this yet.

  Axle, that 132 info is useful,  I used the Fiat/Ford hybride because it keeps the wheel bolt pcd and you can quick change you diff, ratio, in about half an hour.  When you go this way you can use all the ford diff's  and LSD's are cheep and available. Toad put 200ish horse through 10" slick's without braking. 

    On the fabrication front, which ever block you use, they have a water outlet on the rear, this goes where the heater fan is, and the throttle body needs re-welding on the other end to clear, well everything.  I dressed back the bulkhead on toad, it was a mess, its been cut out and will be replaced. 

   Engine block,  at least if you can do the engine rebuild using the 131 block and crankshaft you don't need the machine the Thema shaft for the spigot bearing in the end, and the sump will all fit, just need to mount some sensors and the crank angle pegs on the front pulley I think.
   
   As Testy, says its a lot of work for a road car because you really want to keep the heater for demist in the winter months.     

         Regards chaps

                     Roger................. Cool
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stathe174
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2010, 08:57:00 PM »

Have you thought using a bellhousing from a 131 automatic since it has place for the starter motor in both sides? Mine has!!  Wink
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My 131 Special went HISTORIC
TOAD
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2010, 10:26:44 PM »

Hi Stathe174,
 
   Does the Auto box use the same gear casing as the manual type, does it have the same bolt pattern from the bellhousing onto the box as the manual?

       Very interesting

             Regards
   
                       Roger...................
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Testament
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 12:58:33 AM »

My comments on the bellhousing are a bit of hearsay, I haven't had all the pieces infront of me to confirm this, just what I've heard around on the net and from freinds who have worked on alot of the FWD cars. if anyone does have all the bits or just some of them it would be good to take some pictures and post them up.
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turb
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 07:52:23 AM »

In NZ the Croma Turbo (8v) did not have the balance shaft block fitted.  So that would be my choice as a doner engine (hindsight!).  As Toad mentioned the balance shaft casement adds a lot of weight to the block therefore the front of the car.  I would still swap the starter motor side (131ohv bellhousing) as the turbos proximity to the starter motor would not be good for longevity.  The block will bolt straight up but that's where all the problems mentioned in the above replies start.

My attempt at this conversion is on going but there are a couple of photos in the "Introductions" section under "Yet another NZer".  Unfortunately, due to my computer phobia, information is sparce, but it might give you the idea.
J.
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Tas131
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 08:56:06 AM »

On the fabrication front, which ever block you use, they have a water outlet on the rear, this goes where the heater fan is

Isn't there a welsh plug in the front (rear), the old water outlet is blanked off and a new one fabricated for the welsh plug hole.
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Mick.
Tasmania. Australia.
Red/grey series 2 (Daily driver)
Dark blue series 1 (Dismantled)
Light blue series 2 (Crashed then dismantled)
Metallic blue series 2 (Dismantled)
Testament
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 02:45:21 AM »

On the fabrication front, which ever block you use, they have a water outlet on the rear, this goes where the heater fan is

Isn't there a welsh plug in the front (rear), the old water outlet is blanked off and a new one fabricated for the welsh plug hole.

It has been done in the past - But I don't think its a good idea, they moved the outlet to the other end of the engine from the water pump when they changed to the reverse port 8v head because the gearbox end of the engine doesn't get much coolant flow and runs hot with the outlet and pump both at the pulley end.
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Walezy
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2010, 03:27:58 PM »

I have not noticed anything bad with moving water outlet to the front except that i still was using small heater outlet that kept the coolant to circulate through the back of the head.
The firewall needs to be moved backwards a bit(about 2-4cm) to make room for the head and the distributor will not fit at the back of the head. the heater box with small mod will still fit in it's place.
There is quite a lot of work with it but probably worth it. If you do not want to spend a fortune on fitting the engine then you will have to make the fitting by yourself. Mig welder will help for sure.
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