131mirafiori forum

Is it possible to install IDF's on a RHD  without  having to move the vacuum pump ?

Any experiences of your own in this area?

Miro

What do you mean by "vacuum pump", I had IDFs on my 131 on an original 124BC manifold with a BC aircleaner. No clearance issues anywhere, it sounded like heaven and went like a scalded cat.

VACCUM BOOSTER AND BREAK PUMP =  vacuum pump

The "Brake booster & Brake master cylinder" are on the RH side of my car, with intake on the left there are no clearance issues for fitting IDFs..

 You mean the" servo " as in servo assited brakes . in the english garage.
 and no mostly were always on the other side on 131 s i think
jay

those carbs on the picture are simmilar to alfa 33 delorto's? i've got a pair and was thinking about how to fit them to 1.6tc engine. got pics of intake manifold for those carbs?

Here is the photo I got from Guy Croft (who has always been extremely helpful and informative and ready to share his experience with all us DOHC funs). Guy says his experience with mounting DCOE in a RHD 131 is limited.

The picture shows Guys own M 131 intake manifold (note the angle of the manifold).

I understand that the angle was designed to make sure the block-mounted distributor is not in the way. There are also straight manifolds, which I believe were used for some models of 124 (see picture).   

Maybe there is someone out there who drives on the right (correct) side of the road and has experience with installing DCOE Webers or similar like Delorto's  in a standard  version of 131?

In Polish we also use "servo". My garage English is limited (largely to American English). In US this is called "power brakes" or "power assisted breaks" and the servo is called ?vacuum booster?. Maybe it would be fun to create a useful quick reference of English (UK and US) automotive terms.

Remember when I first heard that the trunk is a "boot" and fender is a "wing", the hood is a "bonnet". It took me a while not to laugh whenever I heard these funny terms.  ;D So language is a matter of experience. I am sure our Aussie friends have a good laugh occasionally as well. So do not be surprised when someone calls the "servo" a "booster" both are proper English terms , though only one of them is British.  If you have not noticed English does not always mean British. This is the price of making this language the principal international language of communication. :'(

An incidentally they are on the same side (in a car drivable on the right =correct side of the road! 

PS: How come there are no capital letters in your post.   :P

We have guards, wings are on aeroplanes or birds! Fenders are something you hang over the side of a boat so it doesn't get damaged at a wharf. ;D

 MY POINT EXACTLY  !!!  ;D ;D ;D

Miro, you might want to look at this:

(http://www.oelprinz-online.de/images/fiat/trichter.jpg)

This is my LHD (German) 131 (I assume this is what you meant by saying "...drives on the right side of the road"). This setup is from Ritmo 130TC, two Solex side draft carbs on a Ritmo inlet manifold. Clearance is tight as you see, we had to cut out a section of the fourth trumpet to clear the brake booster.

This setup has been working now for nearly 40,000 kms without problems.

Best regards,
Robert

I see what you mean its very tight,,, ::)  GC did an alloy plate instead of the rubber mounts for the 130tc
    which uses up the least room of any manifold  ,which is the way ,it looks like you must go unless you try a remote servo...
jason

anybody got any experience with these on fiat twincam 1.8 or 2.0? they're of an yamaha 1100ccm 130ks originaly, inlet manifold on pics is custom made for yugo they were on, 1.4l fiat sohc. something japanese, can't remember the name??? they're for sale in belgrade for 250e

kehin 45!

ROBERT , THANK YOU VERY MUCH !

 THIS IS MOST USEFUL.

Could you tel me how much space does the inlet manifold take ( in cm)  and what is the total distance between the head and the end of the carbs ( without the trumpets ) See picture I got from Guy Croft in my previous post below.

GC pictures show 24 cm. Is yours shorter ?

Also, is the130TC manifold  straight or angled ?

What is the size and model of your Solex?

 
Miro

those solex carbs can also be found on alfa 75

@Miro:


Unfortunately my car is stored for the winter, in a garage not close by, so at this moment I can't get the measures you require. Hoewver, I can tell you the Solex's are 40ADDHE.

For a picture of the 130TC manifold you might want to take a look here, auction has ended, but the pics are good:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110318609608&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001

This guy also sold adapter plates for this manifold to fit 45 Weber carbs, see here:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Weber-45-DCOE-Adapter-Fiat-Ritmo-Abarth-124-131-Beta_W0QQitemZ110317743791QQihZ001QQcategoryZ76044QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Next year (at least that's my plan) I will swap the Solex carbs for Weber IDF. Why? The Solex setup is great, however, I'm planning to get the car street legal (at the moment it is not, can only be driven using German red number plates - regular plates are black) and German law will never allow this side draft carb setup without air cleaner. IDF carbs are ok for the law. Yes, that sucks. But what shall I do?

Best regards,
Robert

DCOE40 carbs, manifold and aircleaner that were removed from a RHD 131. It looks like a 130TC setup, but seeing as we never got them in OZ, I'm not certain.

http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6094

Price is a bit rich and freight to Europe wouldn't be cheap either.

Looking at the direction of the air intake I would rather say it is for "European" (LHD) model.

Will contact the guy and see ...

This is really nice and looks complete...

Robert,

 Thank you very much for the info and link.

 Very helpful indeed   

They were recently removed from a RHD 131, what they were off originally I don't know.

Checked again and you are right.

I was so hopeful they would fit my LHD that I was not thinking straight .

This is the car it came off.   

I have a set of factory idf's and manifold for sale if this is any help  ;D

pics pls and how much dinero?

Robert, I really cannot understand this!

In Poland the MOT equivalent will test many things but will not disqualify a car just beacuse it does not have a filter. They look at the exhaust Co2 and carbon content.  In any way I can register any car in Poland which meets the "original stanted" under which it was built. Registering a Trabant with 2 cycle engine - absolutely no problem !

And with a Vintage Car registration (yellow plates with a vintage car logo for at least 90% original cars , 15 years out of production and 25 years old ) I get a lifetime MOT ! ( I mean valid FOREVER !)     

This is due to Automobilklub Polski ( Auto Club Poland like RAC) and many old car activits the lawmakers  were persuaded to make it fairly easy. Now I can even register a vintage car which was never registered and no ownersip papers exist! All I need to do is to declare in writing that the car is mine !

I though we had a crazy bureaucracy , but from what you are saying we are far behind . Hope this green crazy socialist revolutionaries crowd will not spread to Poland (at least for as long as I live !)

Anyway , if you take your stuff off  I am interested. I can wait because I would probably put it into my 124 spider . It is currently on Bosch Jet-tronic f.i. I would put in on a new engine I got ( while the f.i. is being rebuilt) .     
 

This would be most helpful, please PM - me with details of the carbs and manifold. I am very interested !

Miro 

Miro, as concerning street legality of carb setup without air filters in Germany. The story is a little longer.
First, we do have two classes of "historic cars" here; one with a regular, black license plate (added an "H" at the end for "historical") and one with red plates (called "07" plates). Both classes require the car to be at least 30 years old.
The difference: for "H" plates the car must fully confirm to factory standards when it was delivered, only some accessories which were typical for this era are allowed. Benefit of "H" plates: (Relatively) low taxes (190 Euro/year, independent of CC, which makes it possible to drive US V8s that would normally cost more than 1,000 Euros/year, only tax) and no mileage limits.
For "07" plates, the car may be altered as long as it confirms foughly to factory standards. Advantage: Taxes are like for "H" plates; good thing is you can have ONE "07" plate for several cars and pay tax only for the plate.
Disadvantage: you have to keep a log book for EVERY drive you take and you are only allowed to drive for certain reasons (attending car shows, driving rallyes, testing the car).

This is why I want to get an "H" plate for the Fiat (which I do already have for my Alfa). Problem is "factory standards". The 131 was never delivered with side draft carbs, so for German MOT this is a knock out criterium. And on top of that, with side draft setup you cannot fit an air cleaner (brake booster in the way). Regulations are less about pollution but about NOISE. So it seems I am forced to switch to IDF carbs, they were used on 131s (at least I find them in a contemporary Hormann catalogue) and can be easily fitted with air cleaners.
The other modifications (roll bar etc.) are contemporary and acceptable for "H" plates. So this is why I want/need to switch carbs. Sad story, I know. But in this case I happen to live in the wrong country  >:(

Robert ,

Most interesting.

Technically in Poland the car must meet original spacs, but:

1/ it is judged ba a certified AutoClub expert (not a state official)
2/ in case of a rally car like mine (officially: "Fiat Abarth 131 Rally Stradale - street version - modified for rallying") ia have the possibility to modify the factory delivered version as it would be modified for rallying at the time. I use the FIA homologation as my guide both because I want it to remain as original as possible, but also this is the spirit of the law here. So for instance; I have currently standard 131 front brakes which I want to modify  -  I will use ones from Persche 911 RS ( aluminum calipers)  as in FIA  homologation.  In the priginal the car in a street version had a single Weber 34 ADF.  I have no problem of changing it into a two DCOE or IDF's , as these are commonly recognised as the sporting carbs of the era.

It appears that the way I got it registered: "Fiat Abarth 131 Rally Stradale - street version - modified for rallying" is the key ...  I did notknow I was so smart when I did this  :o

Re: noise
I theoretically I have to meet 100 db limit, but no one ever tests this, I do not drive it on streest except for tests (to and from mechanic) and to get to classic car events  (few times a year) and I naver (NEVER)  race the car on the streets (keeping it on low RPM at which the noise is really very loud).

Anyway, the rules in Poland and Germany seem to be much more similar than I initially thought...

Do not worry, Germany cannot be a "wrong" country.  :)
After all where did Walther R?hrl came from  ;D

PS: when you take your carbs off and are be ready to part with them let me know. I will take them !

Some more info on German license plates, to whom it may concern.

There are roughly 3 types of plates: regular, red, and historic.

Unlike most other countries, German regular plates show the city/county the car is registered. The first 1 - 3 letters show city/county; major cities 1 letter, big cities/counties 2 letters, smaller cities/counties 3 letters. The German MOT equivalent has to be passed every two years. Tax depends on engine displacement and polution class. For an example of a regular license plate, see my daily driver here:

(http://www.oelprinz-online.de/images/rallye2008/fst2008_06.jpg)

Red plates come in two variants: "06" and "07" plates; the former being reserved to car dealers who may drive ANY vehicle with one set of plates, but only for testing or selling purposes; a drive log has to be kept for every drive. The "07" plates are for historic cars that are at least 30 years old. They are issued if the car qualifies as road safe (MOT equivalent) and roughly confirms to factory specs. After being accepted, the car need not undergo any further MOT tests. Up to seven cars can be registered for one "07" plate, on request even more. Tax is 190 Euro/year flat, regardless of the number of cars. A drive log has to be kept listing every drive; the car must only be used for specific purposes (testing, attending car meets, rallying). See my 131 for an example:

(http://www.oelprinz-online.de/images/rallye/metz2006.jpg)

Finally, the historic plates ("H" plates). Issued for cars at least 30 years old. Cars must confirm to factory standards of the production era. Only contemporary accessories may be allowed. Good condition required to qualify for an "H" plate. Tax is 190 Euros/year flat, regardless of engine displacement and pollution class. MOT equivalent to be passed every two years. No drive log, unlimited use allowed. See my convertible for an example:

(http://www.oelprinz-online.de/images/monat/bonnie-pinup.jpg)

(look at the license plate!!!)

Hope this was interesting for at least some of you.

Robert ,

Very intersting indeed!

I especially like the co-driver of the Bonneville !  ::) ;D