131mirafiori forum

The good news: Car passed the MOT last Saturday.

The bad news: The differential didn't survive the celebratory drive to East Sussex and back  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Same kind of feelings here! I really would like to finish my project few weeks before 3MA10. I would like to drive few hundred kilometers before heading to Germany. Just to make sure that everything works fine...

My differential was in BAD shape and I was forced to replace that. One of the gears was so warn out that you actually CAN shave your beard with it. The noise while driving was killing me and I am sure that I was quite near to a huge explosion... ;D

Oh no Theo!  :o Not good! :( What are you going to do now? I suppose the axle is still good on Dudley isn't it? So you could always swap them over. Thing is, will Mark be able to make time for you? ::)

Major organ transplant scheduled for tomorrow....  ;)

Sorry to see what happened Theo,however it would be a lot worse if that happened somewhere in France on your way to 3ma10.Eugene

come on Simon Mark making time?? this is an easy  do it yourself job Theo.

I know, I've done it before  :-[ And that's the plan for tomorrow. But as my "spares" car and therefore my spare rear axle is at Mark's place the DIY job will be done there and Mark will be able to lend a hand or a spanner...

Sid,

Theo's donor car is growing into Mark's compound in Essex, so Theo will need Mark to assist him with the donor axle removal, if only to extract the donor car from the years of sinking in the mud and growing into the hedge ;D ;D.

Also, Mark is only available to open his yard on Saturday mornings, and to be honest, having down this job a few times myself, it's better if there is an assistant to help with the final positioning. ;)

Having spoken to Theo earlier today tho there is a good chance that a mutual acquaintance will have already extracted the donor car now, so hopefully Theo can get on with the swap in one go tomorrow morning. 8)

Best of luck Theo and here's hoping it doesn't rain on you too much. ::)

Don't worry, there is time enough and otherwise I have space or a car for you to celebrate 3MA in Germany! ;D

but the handiest is just change the pinion & diff, no need to change the whole axle, be done in no time.

I was thinking that but won't it need to be re-shimmed if I do that? I suppose they need to be changed as a set but if I swap pinion and diff and they are too 'tight' in my axle it may break again soon?

Hi chaps,

     Since we all know these axles are week, and it seems lots of you go touring with your 131 's  For piece of mind why don't you do the fiat/ford hybrid conversion and then your worries are over.
     My one had four axles before the change and never had the clutch dropped ever, they still broke.
                   

                 Sorry to but in just trying to help

I agree thats why i have the toyota axle converted to fit the 131 i would reckon the supply of 131 axles are dwindling except for Yagmur of course with the new bits,
Theo i changed the pinon & diff twice before & worked out fine no shimming or anything like that & they were matched only took about hour & half from start to drive away, hope it works out whatever you do but being in the uk you could always source a english axle or whatever & convert it & have it ready for when the diff decides to whisk some chocolate angel delight again ;) ;)

this is when i left them ,after giveing emmergency sugar fix  (xmas cakes )  old diff and floor newer on  being set up.

Apparently it has been a success!! ;D

Yes (while touching wood) it seems to be a successful transplant. In fact I took the car for a longish drive afterwards and everything seems fine. It even seems quieter than the old diff used to be before it broke.  The back axle on my old 'spares' car looked worse for wear although I'm sure some stiff wire brushing and a coat of black paint would have made it look as good as new. But my current car has a rear disc conversion and it would have been a lot of extra work to transplant the disc conversion as well as all the suspension over so I decided to follow Nick's advice and swap over just the pinion and diff. But it took a lot more than an hour and a half! The pinion needs the right amount of shimming to allow it to turn smoothly without being too loose allowing for movement. There's a long spacer (which seems collapsible) between the two pinion bearings and the 'new' pinion had an extra shim behind this while the old one didn't. The two 'collapsible' spacers were not the same length so there was a bit of trial and error using the different size spacers with and without the shim to get the pinion just right. Similarly, the diff unit has a spacer shim either side of it to position it against the pinion. Move the crownwheel further to the right by fitting a larger shim on the left and you get it closer to the pinion or fit larger shim to the right and it moves the crownwheel to the left and away from the pinion. We had 4 different sized spacer shims from the two axles and I think we had the diff in and out about 6 times before we decided we had the correct combination of spacer shims to give the correct mesh with the pinion. And of course the rear disks and associated calliper brackets had to be removed to undo the driveshaft bolts and draw the shafts out. Luckily the new replacement Brembo disks I ordered earlier in the week arrived yesterday so I now also have new disks and pads fitted with a very noticeable improvement in braking. So all in all a very successful albeit very long day today.   :D

My thanks to Jason for the emergency sugar fix (http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/yummy.gif) and to John for his help and of course to Mark for his invaluable advice and assistance.

That's good news Theo. I bet you ache this morning though! :D

Need to get my Arbie sorted now. Found some new suspension via a member of this forum ;D and hope to collect very soon. The car will need a little attention for the MoT so hoping to get that done at the same time as the swapping of suspension components. 8)

Well Theo you are meant to change that collapsable spacer as it is for preloading the pinion bearings but I take it you used some engineers blue so you dont suffer another chocolate diff melt down. But do get a lying down board to save you from the damp concrete as your old limbs will thank you as you could be needing a 131 with an auto box and power steering as your limbs will be fooked with the damp getting in  ::) ::) ::)

Well that's what we figured but we only had two used spacers of which one was too short and the other too long.  The original plan was to swap axles so we wouldn't have to disturb the diff.  :-\

If you look at the photo you'll see a nice pink blanket for lying on as well as a board although there was a lot of crawling around on concrete and even wet ground to get the diff out of the 'spares' car. Unfortunately Mark's workshop was rather full with two Alfas and two Lancias (one of them being my Gamma) so rather than rearrange the cars to get the 131 inside we decided to work on it outside. It was only meant to take an hour or so anyway!  ::)  ;D

Just wondering,are the series 1 back axle prone to the disease that Theo's one has,or is it just the sport axle suffers from this ??? ::) ::).Eugene

That's a good question Eugene and one that I can only guess at the answer. I believe the rear axles are the same between series 1 and series 2 (and possibly series 3?). So when the Fiat 131 was originally designed the axle had to cope with a 1300 and 1600 OHV engine of limited power. Fiat then started putting twin cams in the 131 with the Sport having 115bhp and loads of torque and the poor diffs just don't seem able to cope.  :'(  I never had any problems with the diff on my Series 1 1600 131S (which I had for many years and many tens of thousands of miles including several drives to the Continent and even a drive to Turin and back). I also never had any problems with my Series 2 1600CL (now in Ireland) although I only did limited mileage in the two years I owned it. But my Silver 131 Sport had 3 diff changes while I owned it; they only seemed to last about 60,000 miles if lucky or less if not. And now my current Sport is on it's second diff since my ownership. In all cases the problem was with the pinion loosing its teeth and never with the crownwheel or diff unit itself. So to answer your question, I'd say this problem is limited to the Sport or possibly the larger engined cars in the 131 range. Anybody out there know different or know how long the diffs last in the 2 litre Supers?

Well done Theo hopefully it will last a good while, i only took me that long to change the diff & pinion i just bolted in the one from the other axle & it worked fine for a long time, i see you had limited space to work in is that a back alley garage? i have access to a lift & i also have huge axle stands  for my oldish frame to get under the car, is the bloke that did it expensive?

Mark has a fully equipped workshop (www.ItalianRaceServices.co.uk (http://www.ItalianRaceServices.co.uk)) with a full size hydraulic ramp but as I said his garage was full with other cars so decided to do the work in his driveway. It was worse than that getting the diff off my 'spares' car which is sitting in a field behind Mark's garage! We did the work together or I did most of the hard work with Mark's invaluable advice and assistance. I wouldn't say he is expensive but I also wouldn't say he is cheap in case he is reading this and decides to put up his prices!  ;) He is still restoring my Gamma and that's costing me a lot of money!  :-[

I used the 131 to get to the office this morning to see how it copes with London's stop-start rush-hour traffic and I am pleased to say that it behaved admirably with a still very quiet differential.  :D

well his website seems to just have the one car think its your lancia Theo but love the address 199 pound lane bet you would need more than that in yer wallet to go there??

There's also the library photos of the 131 Abarth and 124 Spider  ;) But yes you are right it is my Gamma shown there. I did Mark's website (hence the (http://www.capscan.org/irs/Thotos.gif) logo  ;) :D)  years ago about 1996/7 and all I had from his work were the photos of my Gamma.  You are right about the address though and yes I have spent a lot more than that with Mark over the years.

ll i wish i could get the sort of money he charges per hour, i am here in Ireland with all the tools & experience for restoring older cars & no work at the moment so very frustrating sometimes, today i have only 1 job for tomorrow a new clutch in a 98 gsxr 750, tried to get away from the bikes but beggers cant be choosers, would it cost much to get a proper website set up Theo?

Mark has the opposite problem: too much work and he can't cope with the demand. And it is a problem as he's had my Gamma for over a year now and there's still no end it sight. And I am supposed to be going to Germany in the Gamma in April!  ::)  At the moment Mark has 3 cars in his workshop undergoing full restorations, a 156 having a full engine rebuild, a 131 waiting for a restoration, a 131 Abarth replica (sort-of) with turbo engine waiting for major mechanical work, a 75 waiting for major bodywork plus several other smaller 'projects' including his own Ford Anglia rebuild (which will have a Fiat twin cam in it). He was actually telling me last week that he is thinking of having new bigger workshops built to house all these projects but I keep telling him he needs to either get an assistant or start turning work away (which he had to do recently) otherwise he'll never get my Gamma finished!   :-\ :-[  He did have an assistant for a while (unemployed professional welder friend) whom he got to do some work on my Gamma and now it seems Mark decided to re-do most of his work  :o "He is a good welder but lacks finesse and that won't do in my workshop" he said to me. 

I've sent you a PM about websites.  ;)

i like what he said lacks finesse thats the way i feel about some work i have to redo, he must be good then this mark well he has some hard restorations on his hands!

I had my 131 Sport for 16 years and needed three replacements - only did 60k miles in it!  :-\

Is it something to do with wheelspining from standing starts  ::) i know i had that problem ,and when you get a good one going you just can't help prolonging it and pendulming all the way down the road  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Get a 124 diff as they are well able for the power and lets face there are f all roundabouts in Ireland that dont have some of my rear tyres on  ;D ;D

Red,you forgot to mention dat you could also use a Lada axle.There axles are bullit proof ;D ;D ;D.Eugene

Eugene dont be winding up the red fella!

Which is the easyest and best replacement then for the 131 axle  the 124 or the lada riva (is it that one ) , was it a straight swop or  did you need brackets welding and moving .... :-\

What is wrong with your axle as you need to get it sorted for 3ma

nothing :) i was just wondering for future reference and anybody else who goes through theo predicament
 :o :o and what they replaced it with or swoped gears over  like theo :(

Jason there are very few members here who use these cars regular that didnt suffer chocolate diff syndrom

which is the easyest swop

fiat 132 probably. it requires some welding and cutting same as lada rear axle