131mirafiori forum

hi everybody again      does anyone has informations for lancias volumex engine ???

What is it you want to know?  ???

thotos   γεια σου  i have a betas volumex engine  and i am thinking of using it at a  131   4 door
i also have the electronic ignition the distributor and the ex cam from a 132    2000 injection to turn it
so it can be fited (the ex cam will be reprofile to be the same as the lancia is) my question is what  can i do with the carb (the beta engine is standing in the lancia in a20 degree rear  angle) that will not work normaly in a fiat and  how can i fix the advans (at engine and distributor) without using   lancias distributor ?  if you have  any photos pleace sent me  i am trying to understand   what are  all those wires      thanks pavlos

Hello pavlos.  You have very correctly identified that the main difference between the Lancia and Fiat installation of the twin cam engine is the 20 degree angle at which the engines sit in the Lancia. That means the Lancia inlet manifold is not going to work in a Fiat. While I know it's been done before, I have no personal knowledge or any photos of a Lancia Beta engine fitted to a 131. But why do you not want to use the Lancia distributor? 

the lancias distri.  is on the cam(where the cam ends) if the engine turns for a fiat it has to be removed of its possision and put a new at the left side of the cam box  (like the 132 2000 inject) i ve got the spares but the marelli ignition of  the 132   wont cooperate with the bosch distib of lancia   it has to be the marelli disrtib from 132 (i ll sent photos )  i also dont know how (how is it) to regulate the advanse

Obviously not all Lancia Beta twin cams are the same  :-\  My Beta Trevi two litre twin cam has the Bosch distributor in the block just like a 131. The oil filter and alternator are at different places and my Lancia also has power steering hence a PAS pump.

You are right, the cam mounted distributor will not fit in the 131 unless you start cutting metal and you don't want to do that. The advance on a 131 is set to 10 degrees BTDC which the same as the Lancia so the marks on the cambelt cover are the same for 131 and Lancia.

so a bosch 131 dizzy wont fit in the head?

No. None of the 131 distributors will fit in the head. The head fitting is totally different to the block fitting.

ok but is there a dizzy to match the 131 bosch system that will work in the head?

Not sure what you are asking here  ??? There are two types of head fixings. The 124 type head fixing has the dizzy almost vertical and that kind of fixing will fit a 131. As for the electronics, it all depends which distributor you use. Some 124s had a points distributor (some even had two sets of points) so they would connect to a standard coil setup. If using electronic distributors then Bosch goes with Bosch and Marelli goes with Marelli as long as the correct pickup is used in the distributor. The Lancia type head fixing has the distributor horizontally out of the back of the head and such a fitting will not go into a 131 unless the bulkhead is cut to make room.

I think i need to ask the red fella or brensports this question theo where are you lads?

thotos in my case i think i found  the solution     i ll turn the engine 90 degrees (beta 0   131 90) and i ll change the ex cam and cam box with the one from 132 after reprofile the 132 cam as lancias cam (the 132 cam  has the distrib gear on and the cam box a hole on it)     i ll use  132 distrib of 132 and the ignition too   its all marelli         for the carb im thinking of fixing a plate of aluminium under it with the 20 degree  angle that needs to work normally

Dear Pavlos,

Could you please write in full sentence and use proper capitalization and punctuation.

Some (including myself) from whom English is not a native language it is difficult to read and understand.

I hope you will be kind enough to drop this hermetic manner of writing on this forum.   

With best regards

Miro   

Sounds like you've got it sorted pavlos. Your 20 degree aluminium adaptor plate will have to be machined carefully to ensure good sealing. What will you use for gaskets? Are you sure the Lancia Volumex carburettor will clear the 131 suspension turret? It's a long time since I've seen the engine of a Lancia Beta Volumex so I can't remember what it looks like (maybe you could post some pictures) but the 131 Volumex has an offset manifold so the carburettor clears the suspension turret.

Lancia engines canted at 20 degrees have cam box oil ways designed to deal with the angle of inclination, the oil flows back to the sump better because of it, im not sure what would happen if you were to place the engine up-right in a 131!
If thats what you are suggesting.
Steve

I didn't know about the oil ways but it makes sense when I think about it  :-\ Pavlos intends to use the 132 exhaust cam-box so maybe he should be using both cam-boxes from the 132  ???

Gents ,

Not very good news .

The camboxes from inclined engines are not interchangeable with non inclined engines.

Because of the tilt the oil drain channels are located on different distance from the base.

There is also a problem with oil channels in the head which are different that for Lancia than for Fiat 131 /132, so use of 132 camboxes in Lancia may be prove quite difficult and require both welding and mechanical work.

Miro    

PS: Also remember that tolerances for the camboxes wear are extremely low.

Take a look at these - it may help.

http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2111&p=11031&hilit=cambox#p11031

http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1826&p=9714&hilit=cambox#p9714

I'm pretty sure you can just swap the camboxes from a fiat onto the VX head to solve the drainback problem but will have a look this evening when I get home and dig around all my heads and camboxes.

They main issue though is the distributor, the VX has a different ignition curve to prevent detonation. if you use a cambox mounted distributor from a naturally aspirated motor you WILL have pinging/detonation problems.

there are a few solutions
1 - have the cambox mounted N/A distributor curve modified to a VX curve somehow (you would need a copy of the VX curve to do this)
2 - take the end of cam mounted VX distributor, and make your own mounting and drive system to drive it off an additional pulley on the exhaust cam.
3 - install some kind of aftermarket programmable ignition system (possibly distributorless)

I had a lancia head and cam boxes on one of my 131's ,one side would fill a a bit higher than the other  but no leaks and plenty off oil on the buckets and cams on the lower side

Heres a nice one on classic cars for sale