131mirafiori forum

As with many cars of the 70's and early 80's, everylone knows that Rust was a problem and rightly or wrongly, the 131 had a reputation as being particularly rusty. :'(

However, I have a few questions on this issue to put to the Forum.

1) Did they become more rust resistant as the series developed.

For example was the S2 better protected out of the factory then the S1, or an S3 in comparison with an S2.

A friend of my Dad'd had a new 77 S Reg White 131S, that was showing signs of rust early in its life (Circa 18 moths to 2 years) as I can recall. On the other hand my Uncle had a 78 Supermirafiori (one of the first) that showed no signs of rust when sold 4 years later. My own Sport albeit 10 years old when I bought it had rust problems in the doors, rear arches and boot lid.

2) What were the main areas for rust.

3) Was the Estate version any different to the saloon as regards rust.

4) Did the paint (solid or metallic ) make any difference.

There are many experts on this site that have first hand knowledge of the cars in the 70's and 80's and many have restored such vehicles.

It will be intersting to see the answers.

In the UK at least more series 3 cars seem to have survived so perhaps they lasted better although of course they are a bit newer. Personally I think they were made of thin steel, were poorly protected from the factory in terms of paint, underseal and cavity wax which limited their lifespan.

Rob 131,  I bought a 1978 supermirafiori in march 1987 and it had no rust in it. It was a T reg registered in August of 78.
Always preferred mk2 suoermirafiori's as they look better and drive better.

I prefer the series 2 too. Particularly the external looks and the interior. Although I like the series 3's power steering and 2 litre twin cam engine.

seems to me that it's diferent with every car, probably most depending on a kind of life it had. ones that were dayly driven in regions with snow and salt on the roads havent fared well.

also, considering other fiats of the era, it seems that early 70's cars were much less prone to rust than early 80's. there's more 132s 1800 ('74-77) surviving than 2000 (77-81). argentas are all but gone and people in my part of the world in early 90's were using argenta mechanics to fix 132s because argentas were devastated by rust while there were still quite a few 132's left.
again, im serbia at least, there's more mk1 mirafioris around than mk3.

And there was the theory ,that all the unsold  later sport and supers they couldn't shift
 sat on an airfield waist deep in water for a few months and couldn't be sold new so where just repainted and auctioned off >:( 

Many theories evolved through the years about FIAT and the cars they made of the era!
One was about the strike that the workers did leaving all the unfinished cars outside of the factory unprotected from the weather conditions. Another one, which I was told has to do from where the metal came from, old ships dismantled in Livorno bought for steel and after melting the steel they made cars out of it :o so the rustworm was inside from day 1... But as far as the first series and what to look closely the first part of the mirafiori story tells it very well... ;)

There's another theory - proven to be true for German cars from the mid 70s to the early 80s, but this may also apply to Fiat cars.

In the mid 70s, German manufacturers, notably Volkswagen, made so-called "compensation deals" with Eastern Germany (GDR), delivering cars in exchange for parts (e.g. lights) and steel. The steel delivered by East German and/or Russian steel works was of inferior quality, rich on sulphur; VW used it for sheet metal. A main reason for all 1st series Golfs rusting like hell.
To my knowledge, other companies like Opel also bought large amounts of this steel, turning all cars from around 1974 to 1980 into rust buckets. For example, an Opel Diplomat B, first series from 1969 to 1973 survived better than a late 1974-1977 model; they rusted so badly it made you sad. Same applies to Rekord D, Kadett D, or VW Polo, Audi 50, Audi 80, Audi 100, you name it.

So, why not assume Fiat did buy from the same source, using steel of inferior quality and multiply it with no or bad rust protection?

I had a first series VW Golf (1975) and it rusted much worse than any Fiat or any Italian car I've ever had.  :o There was minor signs of corrosion when I bought the car but instead of walking away I thought "it's a VW, the rust is not going to get worse" How incredibly naive and wrong I was....  :-[

On the subject of bad steel!
Until Quality standards like BS 5750and subsequently the ISO 9000 series of controls were introduced and adopted by manufacturers their was little in the way of quality control.
Buyers were looking at buying the cheapest materials in order to make the most profit for the employer.
Following the introduction of Quality standards things improved.
Its important to understand that Quality standards do not necesarily improve quality they simply guarantee a standard of quality, in other words if you say you build Cr*p and you have a quality system in place at least your Cr*p will be of a consistent standard!
On the other hand Quality systems are their to be audited by others, so manufacturers tended to improve rather than down grade materials and products as they became aware of the values attached to Quality products.
Steels come in all different types and qualities and their always will be the manufacturers that use poor quality materials.
And another warning, a supplier/manufacturer can use the ISO 9000 symbol even if the only item falling under the Standard might be say 'how to stamp a blank' all his other activities may be outside of the scope of his ISO certification but he doesnt have to tell you that. :-[
Regards
Steve

Theo

What was the appeal of a Mk1 Golf when a much better 131 or even Strada could have been bought for ???;s cheaper :o

My Mother had a new 78 Mk 1 Basic Golf in a bright blue colour. Never liked it; harsh, basic and uncomfortable  :( :(

My Wife and I looked at a Polo as a replacement for her Punto a few years ago and the memories of the Mk 1 Golf came flooding back. A Renault Megane was eventually bought  ;D

Well this was comparing apples and oranges I'm afraid. There's nil similarity between a, say 2005 VW Polo and a Mk1 Golf. Nil. The new VW generation cars are without charisma, that's right, but they are nearly perfect means of transportation from A to B. And a contemporary Polo is worlds apart from a (somehow) moving Renault cr*p. I do say this not out of patriotism (would never buy a Polo or Golf or Passat myself, because I am into stylish cars), but I do know the 2000 Polo model quite well (my parents' last car it was) and was surprised how well it was designed, how good it handled and how economic it was to drive. On the other hand, I know how badly Renaults are engineered  :o

The Golf was actually for my wife; I was driving a first series Mirafiori 131S (1600 OHV). My wife used to have a Triumph Spitfire MkII 1300 which was incredibly unreliable and useless in the wet British weather and hopeless in the snow (but very pretty though  ;) ) The golf was meant to be a sensible and reliable replacement for the Triumph. It proved to be neither so I managed to make my wife see sense and changed the Golf for a 128 3p.

(http://fiatmotorclubgb1.netfirms.com/Gallery/images/Pictures/128_3p-1.jpg)

That turned out to be extremely reliable and in the 5 years we had it id didn't rust! And it was very pretty too  ;)  My wife's only problem with it was that she couldn't use it much because I kept taking it  ;D

Robert

I have to disagree with you on this one :). It was the end of 2007 and we decided to replace my wife's ageing 01 Y Reg Punto ELX (worth ?2k as a PX) with a much more expensive car.

Her preconception was mainly because I have also driven BMW's is that German Cars were great (quality thing etc) and that she wanted a Polo. I remember been sat in the back during the test drive in ?8.5k's worth of 1.4 SE Polo (2007) and thinking that the Punto was a much more refined and sporty car. She eventually chose a top spec Diesel Megane that I rarely drove.

Twice a year for a few years we (wife and I with 2 young children) would holiday in France (one in the North West and one in the South) and would always travel from the NW of England in my BMW. However in 2009 due to me working mainly in the Gulf (with my BMW sold) we went to the Dordogne in the Megane. What a great car. Not quite a BMW; but the margins were quite slim.

In my opinion based on this experience, give French cars some serious consideration. ;)

i wouldn't!

seems to me that opel cars were made from inferior quality steel well into 90's. all kadett, vectra,astra  and omega cars rust very badly.

about VW, three examples come to mind:

1) early 70's beetle that a friend of mine was restoring couple years ago. WHAT A RUSTBUCKET!!!
holes everywhere but worst were C pillars. rusted to bits because they were factory filled with foam. now that's faulty design, not poor quality of steel.
i have 1969. fiats 850sport and 124 sport and they're not nearly as rusty.

2) VW passat from 2004. came to my friends garage for suspension checkup. turned out that it needed all 4 (????) new front suspension arms. silent blocks gone, lower balljoints too. can't be changed individually, suspension arms are made of aluminium. expensive beyond reason. that's 7 yers old, too early for such expensive repairs.

sorry guys, but theories about quality of steel, cars sitting in the ports getting sprayed by salty water etc are all bull. it's lack of rustproofing and faulty design.

and about renault megane... bouncy ride, poor quality of interior plastic, and it's UGLY.

A few nice rusty details

one more