131mirafiori forum

Here's a topic about something that will always be a discussion point. Keep a 2 door or make it an Abarth replica. The reason i'm starting this is because recently a new member from South Africa registered. No offence and a warm welcome. But he opened his topic with the words he bought himself a steel body 2-door saloon. I was very hopefull. Then the pictures followed... Again, an Abarth replica attempt. :-\
When i started working on my first replica, back in 1988, i thought i had something different. Special perhaps. It was my Oliofiat replica, made of a 1600 L. Then, in 1991, i bought a Racing that already had the bodypanels but was a tuned Racing. I turned it into an Alitalia replica. Took the whole interior out and changed it into the spartan one. Again i had something that was very different from everybody else here in Holland.
I sold the Alitalia to buy me a 16 V head for my REAL Abarth. Sold the body of the Oliofiat to Walezy to pay for a year use of a garage.
Sure, i miss both cars, but after being here on this forum for over 2 years now, i can't say my cars would have been very special anymore.

Nowadays every 2 door 131 is slaughtered to be converted in a spin-off. Racings/Sports are rare and 2 door L or CL saloons are even more hard to find.
Again, i don't want to offend anybody working on his replica. I absolutely understand why one would like to have himself a replica of the 3 times world rally champion. Sure, i once wanted the same. But what i really would like to see is somebody who is restoring him (or her)self a standard 2 door car.

Next to my Group 4 Abarth i have this 1600 Cl (not standard, but it's only a 4-door 1600CL  ;) :P and there are lots of them still out there) and my Walter Rohrl Racing. This last is not completely standard anymore, but it's still a Racing and it will always be a Racing. ;)

Anyway, everybody good luck converting, but you won't get my sympathy. Even though the car looks great. Sorry. I just needed to get this off my mind.  :)

My view on this is that if you have always wanted a 131 abarth but it is out of your reach you will do the next best thing & that is make a replica.. your quite a lucky man as i see you have a genuine car & this allows you to be more sympathic to the lesser 2 door 131s believing they should remain as standard cars, but if you are like me & dont have a real 131 abarth the next best option is to make a replica.. i assume most of the guy's converting their  2 door shells to replicas are in the same boat as me..
Unfortunately i let 2 genuine stradle road cars slip by me one in  1990 for ?12,500 was for sale by Dunan Robertson in england & a second car around 2003 for ?18500 in belgium..(stupid stupid me :P)
My first memories of a rally car was the 131 abarth 'olio fiat' cars, to me they were & still are one of the most impressive looking rally cars of all times.
I absolutely see your view on not turning 2 door shells into abarth replicas & to be honest if i had a genuine car sitting out in my garage i would probably agree with you BUT when you dont have one a replica is the only option..
And i know my replica will not be to everyones taste as it will basically be a visual replica only, with full tarmac kit , proper wheels , rear disc's & an engine robbed from a strada 130. The interior will be more standard road car with series 1 dash than rally interior, but every panel will be fitted & lined up 100% which is what i want in a replica ...
 ;D that's my attempt at standing up for us replica lads  ;D

 Dont think there will ever be a proper answer to the replica  YES / NO   debate ,, but isn't it great that we all love these cars & try to keep them alive & on the roads.. 

Yep, couldn't agree more. To see a very rare car converted to a wrecklica is tragic. I can understand if the body was rotten etc. But to take to a perfectly good car with an angle grinder is blasphemy. I've seen converted cars at display days and race meetings, they're only of mild interest to me, it it was a bog stock original 2 door, I'd be all over it like blowflies on a turd!

May I have my three peneth here,

   You should also consider, that many of these standard cars would not survive if people didn't have the interest in making them into anything further. There is no way so many of these cars would be restored from such bad wrecks if it weren't for the fact there is a history worth emulating.

  There will always be standard cars around unless people sell them on for a pound or two, and forget were there going to be taken. Take me for example, I would tell one storey and do another if I felt it got me the car I wanted, would I cut up a restored car, and good example absolutely NOT, been there, standing with a jig saw and marker pen in front of a gleaming rear wing to be cut,   couldn't do it, sold it at a loss rather than cut it.  It's  up to us to keep them going, standard and modified, its the people chopping them to make money that need a slap, hoarders, not people that just want to make there own for use copy.


  Sorry, can't stand hoarders, no one needs five of the same car.

      Roger......... :-\


P.S  Nice but wouldn't want an Abarth, we can build faster 131 these days without having to be worried about knocking a corner off a genuine Abarth.

  Sorry, can't stand hoarders, no one need five of the same car.

      Roger......... :-\


Roger? It is you who is building himself a second TOAD, aren't you? ;) What do you drive as a daily use car?

I have my 1600 CL for daily use. I have my Racing for fun and driving on sunny days...even though they are scarse her in Holland  :D :D And last, my Abarth to be restored, still.
Would you consider me a hoarder? :)

The Greeks say "Ο καθένας με τον πόνο του" which doesn't translate well but it's close to the English expression "to each his own" which according to Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/to_each_his_own) means Every person is entitled to his or her personal preferences and tastes. And I think that's right! It's up to the individual to do with their car and money what they wish. There will always be 2-door standard Racings/Sports because there are a lot of people out there, me included, who will never convert their cars to replicas. Having said that, I'd love to have a nice replica. In fact I'd prefer to have a good replica to a real Group 4 car as I'd be scared to use a real car (plus I can't afford one  :-[) while I'd get a lot more pleasure out of a replica  :D (http://www.picgifs.com/smileys/smileys-and-emoticons/car-driving/smileys-car-driving-695389.gif)

Hi All.
Mike again has started a good Topic i would also like a genuine Abarth but afraid funds will not allow :(.In
my opinion i have quiet a nice looking Replica which i bought off Dave in 2006 only bad comment i get off
people is the hole in the Roof ;D.Mike i also drive a 131 as one of my daily drivers a 2 litre 1979.Roger was
saying he can,t figure why People hoard cars well there are other people like me who suffer like me with a
form of OCD SO I CANT STOP until i get my Sport next year Plus a good 4 Door Supermirafiori 1983 then i
hope to stop ;)If i don,t stop my Wife will put me in the Garage with my best Ladies 8).Hope my Comments
will not offend anyone just my Two Pence Worth.While i am here may i wish Everyone here a very Happy
Christmas.
  Willie. 
   

in the intrest of keeping your wife happy i will now offer to buy back the white replica from you willie.. :D

No problems with me;

firstly;  the second and Little Toad is owned by me but is for, and will be racing by my Son Douglas.

Secondly; My Daily driver a Thema 16VT original bought because there were  no 131 around for me at the time. But as I have been looking for, and at this time the orange one on Ebay, I may get myself a daily driver yet again. Having spent most of my driving life in a 131 I am 50+ I think I will consider I've put my time in as a 131 daily driver.

Thirdly: You have a Rep, for nice days, understandable,  you have a CL for daily, again understandable and makes sense, and you are doing everyone a service by intending to restore an Abarth, so how does this fit in with Hoarders and people that build reps just to sell?

I am obliged to you for giving me the opportunity of making this clear, as we will all meet at some point, and there's no point in having tensions.  ;D

And to be honest, I will forget most if not all of these names and tags unless some one reminds me at the time, so as always I have taken no offence, and it would seem nether should you  :-*

  Regards

       Roger......


P.S  I did try to offload a ton of usable second hand parts to any one that wanted to come and get them, no one did so it had to go in the Tip, what a wast.  Only have parts to build one 131 now to replace my Thema (Badger).

Hi Willie,

   OCD is one thing, but people that collect cars just to chap good cars into Reps, and people that hoard them to make money on them in years to come when there will be even fewer parts to keep them going, is I feel selfish.

Are you doing ether of these ?    I have no idea and don't need to know.

At the moment people can just about afford these cars, in ten years what will we see,  ?10.000 for a wreck and ?25.000 plus for a running car, never mind the Abarth's

Imagine,   The only 131 owner will have to be very rich, not a car for the common man.  Very sad.

   Both of my cars required chassis work, and no one was biding on Little Toad when I bought, so no one wanted it when I bought it, Big T was bough from three up in a brackets yards twenty or thirty years ago.


  Again, that's just my opinion, just so we know were we stand.  :-*

       Roger......

Being the owner of one heavily modified standard 2door 131, I may add my two pence to this discussion  8)

First thing on my mind: a standard 2door car, be it 1st or 2nd series, is IMHO one of the dullest cars Fiat ever produced. However, it takes just small (and non-permanent) modifications to turn it into something sexy:

• Like with girls, start with shoes  ;) replace the Birkenstocks for Jimmy Choo, i.e. the dull standard wheels for 13" or 14" clover wheels or Cromodoras with wide tires (and you do not need power steering for 205/60-13 tires, I can assure you)
• replace the front grill for a 1st series Special or a Sport grill
• get a front and a rear Series 2 bumper
• get a front and a boot spoiler
• do an engine upgrade to a TC engine

and voil?, you have a decent caf? racer!

(http://www.oelprinz-online.de/images/fiat/tuer3.jpg)

Converting a 2door into a wannabe Abarth, however, is like wearing a fake Rolex: you might impress your neighbor, but the pros will sneer at you. Either you do the job right and make a full conversion, or you go down another road - like I did. If the "Ineptitude" were not that rotten, I would have stayed with her modifications as described above. And with her rotten quarter panels, it would have been an easy job to convert her into just another wrecklica. However, my inspiration was the South African 131 Racing, which looks quite standard, but is more the wolf in sheep's clothing (whereas an Abarth lookalike is just a sheep in wolf's clothing  :o).

(http://www.oelprinz-online.de/images/fiatforum/131-avatar.jpg)


Another downside: everytime you enter your wannabe Abarth and start the engine, you will be reminded it's not the real thing. It's a fake, like the above mentioned Rolex. It will not make you happy deep inside - because there's something missing. So IMHO there's only one thing: Don't go with the crowd. Find your own way. Do either the complete job or build something completely different, not the Abarth lookalike #3251.

I have (and sometimes wear) a fake Rolex  ;) ;D It's a good fake (automatic movement and not quartz) and I don't give a monkey's kahoonas about the pros, they can sneer as much as they like  ;D As I said above, I'll probably never afford a real 131 Abarth and even if I did I'd be scared to drive it so I'd be happy with a good replica  ;)  My good replica Rolex was a present so would someone like to give me a present of a good Abarth replica?  ;D ;D ;D

Exactly Theo, and you don't have to worry about getting it pinched when your out, and I mean the watch now. ;)


I just though, if I ever get offered an Abarth, I'll offer it to you,  there not for me, to slow even in Gp4 trim

 Roger......... 8) ;D

Thank you Roger  :D

I was going to add before, that modern technology and developments can make an Abarth replica much better than the original with more power, better suspension, better steering etc but I thought that might start a whole new discussion.....

Exactly my point also,

  Suppose it depends weather the driver is a driver, or a look at me type,  personally I'll have it in primer with a 16vt under the bonnet ;D

I have multiple 131s - so does that make me a hoarder in your eyes Roger? Most people would call me an enthusiast collector.

Owning a 35 year old Abarth isn't about how fast it goes! Any current Euro-box / hot hatch can beat it away from the lights.

For my part - I'd never possess a 'fake' anything - but my chosen watch is a TAG-Heuer ;)

Lets see,

   Take the Abarth first;  as a rare valuable object, that was built to enjoy being driven, and by that I mean driven like Italian like to drive,  FAST


I think it shows shows a great strength of character and perseverance to take on the upkeep and preservation of such an object that will be passed on for many years to come.  I for one am a G force junkie and need the speed, it must be very hard to keep the speed down to more sanitary levels, required to drive suck a car responsibly, I couldn't do it for very long, so I'm sure we can all applaud your ownership's responsibility's. :)

Hoarding; I have no idea how many 131 you own, I would guess the Abarth, your S and Roo (the green one) as a spares car??   Are you keeping cars for profit? only you know that one, but I doubt it.

Owning a Fake;  Hmm, well I see it like this, if I tell you I have an Abarth because it looks like one, its a fake, on the other hand, if there is no intent to pass the copy off as an Abarth, there is no faking at all because it was never titled as Abarth in the first place, the most put down that could be listed would be representation, not even as used everywhere,  COPY. So what should you say, how about its a sport/two door? with an Abarth style body kit, how hard does it have to be.   This only really matters to those with delusions of grandeur they should have.
  We all know or can find out what is and Abarth and what is not, a copy of Toad would be flattering not insulting, so why do Abarth owners begrudge other people less fortunate or not wanting to risk the genuine car with some fast driving,  seem's a bit selfish to me.  :-\

Owning 35yr old car;  absolutely I agree, so I take it you also see a place for updated versions, rebuilds, what people call copies or replicas.  :P   so there is a place for all after all.

 
enthusiast collector;  are you collecting for monitory gain?  I would think NOT, and apart from parts cars do you use them?  I would think so.   :)



Never possess a 'fake' anything - but my chosen watch is a TAG-Heuer;  
  Shows the character of the person really, just a plan tee shirt, or has to be a Lacost tee shirt,   we use them as rags in the workshop around here, every one to there own I suppose.

Again here is my frame of mind and intentions =  ;) :D ;) :D ;) :D ;) :D ;D ;D ;D

  Roger....

For the record Roger, most of my t-shirts and clothes are most certainly NOT fashion labels - more like George at Asda and Marks and Spencer in actual fact.

Yes I own a TAG watch which I was given as a 40th birthday present by the wife - nothing else I own has a 'designer label' - that's not me. ;) I do not and have not ever owned fake - doesn't mean that I buy "branded" or "designer" either.

I too enjoy driving - hence the Abarth - and every attendee to any 3MA will testify it gets driven by me in the way that the Italian designers intended. 8)

I don't "begrudge" anyone making a replica of anything, Abarth or otherwise, provided people don't try and pass it off as genuine.

Yes, I believe there is most certainly a place for everything (provided it's legal of course ;D) but it's my choice to only buy 'non-replicas'. 8)

You beat me to it with some of your comments Robert...most of which I whole heartedly agree with.

I especially support the view that there are some DULL AS DISHWATER 131 versions out there and that the basis for Dave's conversion is probably the king of them ie the series 2 L whether in 2 or 4 doors. A car that even when new was far less common than all other versions, especially in 2 door format. Why is that? It's because no one wanted them then....and unsurprisly no one wants them now either...at least in their original state...other than to do what Dave and others have done. Personally I'd prefer to see someone's interpretation of a modified 131 (we can call them replicas too) to that of an unloved 131 version.

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/36_1_zps48e05e6b.jpg)

I'd say that no two replicas are alike either so it might be stretching it a bit to actually use the term replica for many of these projects.

Where Sports are concerned I also applaud anyone who takes a rusty wreck and transforms that into a "Replica" or similarly modified car. What causes me a little difficulty though is to see a perfectly good Sport/Racing lose its originality in the pursuit of an Abarth likeness. I believe that happened to this car and to me the car world is a slightly poorer place as a result.

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/img-1255096195_zps991012a4.jpg)

Having said all of that I fully understand the desire to have an Abarth lookylike. On the evening before 3MA07 when three shiny Sports and one less shiny Abarth were lined up in my back garden, the visitors who knew nothing about 131s and even less about Abarths (and as a result even less again about replica Abarths) , all gravitated towards Simon's car and declared it their favourite. It must have a certain "Je ne sais quoi"! :)

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/3MA2007021_zpseffee2c0.jpg)

Thanks for starting a lively Christmas discussion Mike.... :D

Yes Mike you make it also two times!  ???
but it's possible that mine next 131( 2 door) remains a 131  ;)
OK i am one of them those wrecked racing's to make Abarth replica but i like Theo's word:  Every person is entitled to his or her personal preferences and tastes.

And it's always a question how it looks and what do you need it for?
i saw a lot of horrible Abarth replica! and i build mine to race with it, 
i would it not do with an original Abarth Gr.4

Enzo  :)

Simon,

  I just responded to what you put on here, I makes no difference to me whether some thing is genuine, fake or copy, I didn't Wright "I wouldn't have a fake anything".

  And with all these fast 131 around, we must have a track day ;)   see which is faster, the genuine, or the modified cars.  I would consider ether Toad as unfair as there not road legal, but just the same I would like to bring one (Little T) to get Douglas some practice track time in.

  And from the other posting, I would look over an Abarth to see how Abarth had designed stuff, but I would drive away in the sport on the grounds that there no so valuable for having my sort of fun with.

Hot hatch faster;  when Toad was a road car 328 beemers and 1.9 205 Pugs were easy prey then along with allot of others on the county roads,  Up's forgot the BDA Escort that tried to out corner Toad at a high speed until he realised I had shoved the nose up the side of him before backing off, lovely high speed slid beside him.

Never did get bested in Toad as a road car.

P.S  straight roads are for pussy's,


   Roger............... :-*

Yes, this is always a nice discussion and the ever-ongoing one I think and expect.
Yes, for sure there are dull 131s in the opinion of a lot of people, as there are extremely a lot dull cars around at all.
But only looking at last 3MA showed me that actually all types of 131 are loved. Most dull should be a 1300 basic Familiare, but everybody loved Heini's fantastic example by it's clean and original looks, as they did love his superb 1st series 1600. So, I think that brings another question, what is really dull? Simon also really loves 1st series cars very much although he knows a lot of other cars very well. And what's more dull? A 1st series 1300 2 door or a 3rd series 1600TC Super with plastic around and the grey interior?? ;) The 131 was simply designed to carry people and luggage from A to B like a Fiat 124, Toyota Corolla, Ford Taunus, VW Passat, Opel Ascona, Austin Maxi etc.
Lucky us it was a terrific base for the more exciting versions we all love so dearly.

The most people here know my opinion about replica's. Everybody can do of course with their car what they want but for me it's a shame to destroy a good original car for that. When someone makes a proper and good repro out of it I can understand it(maybe) but most repro's are less than good or not finished at all before the owners loose interest. There are more halfly built repro's for sale as proper original cars. And yes I prefer an original Racing highly.

You're welcome, Kevin  ;) I didn't think this topic would follow that much response already in just one day  :D :D :D
Wonderful. Let's see if there are more members who would like to share opinions.  :)

Yes there are some dull versions off the 131   which nobody would want ,just like my taty old 1.4 series 3 but  
 it gets me in shows and our club trips and yes i like to modify it , and its rarer than any other 131 the only one in the UK  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Since i started all of this i think it's time to tell you what my ultimate choice is. left alone my group 4 Abarth, which is for keeps and not for any racing or rallying, i would really love to have me a basic 2 door from 1975. You know, with the small square headlights, no head rests, little chrome, 1300 cc engine and no right mirror. Preferably in the light green. So, if anybody got one in mint condition? wanna trade for my Walter Rohrl Racing?  :D :D :D

Hi All.
Back again for more ;D well Mike if i could find one i would do a trade ;)I agree with Theo about technology
can make a 131 go faster i know i had one but it still was not genuine so Simon as far as i am concerned
your car is still to be Admired ;D.Great FORUM THIS IS and don't forget without Theo Simon and last not least young Kevin we would not have such a great Site to talk to each other.Enough of my ranting.
    Willie.

if anyone finds a 1975 2 -door 131 ring me cause it needs some arches to look good .. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Ha - Did you think the debate was dying down Dave...?  ;D

A sure just giving it a gentle stir .. :D

Didn't realise you had some pic's of the 2 door i bought ..i dont have any proper shoots of the car before i
started to strip it .. can you pm me some more pic's if you have any ..?

Hi All.
Without Mike starting this Topic what would we be doing as for me i would be in bed waiting for Santa ;D.
     Willie.

Guys, I own 2 131's, A '78 S1 1.6 S (4 door) and a S3 '83 1.4 (already swaped for a 2.0 Racing unit).... Have you ever saw a S3 fully original on the road? Last Friday has some of you know my S3 broke down on the road and I went with my father to pick it back home, and he came driving the 131 and I drove my 91 Ford Sierra... I just starred at the car imagining some eastern gangsters coming out of the windows with some old thompson machine guns and killing all the old people arround..... I cracked myself laughing with that picture but GOD THIS CAR IS UGLY!! And yes it will be annother wreckila... I know it I've admited it, but this car was for sale for more than a year when I bought it, the original 1.4 engine was death and the car is not well painted or risk\dent-free, so, at my one way, I'm saving this poor bastard from junk.... I wouldn't dare to do it with my '78 S but that's why I bought the '83 one.... I also own 3 Delta's HF Turbos, 2 fully original and annother one that I'm building at really low budget just to have fun and learn something about cars... These Delta's are a real Pain in the A$$... I don't sell cars, I'm 26 years old and own 11 old junks as some say.... I'm short money but I also refuse to give up from my babies.... So, no fancy restorations but I never get bored with my cars ;)

Ok this is interesting reading.
As I at first was a Sport only man but some of these replicas look so good.
 I was asked this question by email by Sid our old Irish member a couple of months ago.
 We were talking about his 131 Racing restoration nearing completion, colour choices etc, his words were "Right what are you going to do is it a 131 replica or genuine authentic 131 Sport for your restoration"

To be honest I was half and half but I replied to Sid with the 131 Sport route but I have been stuck between the two choices since I got my Sport.

Either the basic body only Stradale replica route or the genuine Sport restoration will cost me about the same money "a small fortune" so I am looking for some advice and mainly opinions for my up and coming strip down and restoration.
What do you think ?

131 Sport or 131 Stradale replica ??

106usj,   that's extremely easy, genuine Sport even when it costs more as a repro. When somebody wants a replica please buy somewhere an unfinished project which is already on the way. I love Racings!

Ok that's the first reply and opinion, its Racing/Sport..

A genuine sport restored as a sport is going to be more sought after and more valuable in the future in my opinion.

Also as a road car a sport makes more sense. I would get sick of the noise and uncomfortable nature of a replica after using it for a short while.

A RHD genuine UK sport is a rare car already, it seems a shame to me to butcher it to make a replica.

However, it's your car and your money. What you do is up to you. Ulimately it has to be what you want to do and what you are going to be happiest with in the long term ;)

Prophecy of the Cree Indians, adapted: "When the last 4-door is converted to a 2door Abarth lookalike, the last Panorama broken for spares and the last Racing wrecklica'd, you will discover that a 131 was more than just wide arches!"

I still will have a panorama..... But first a wreklica...   :D  :D  :D

The answer to that is very simple. If you want a Sport then restore a Sport, if you want a Replica then spend your money on wrecking a Sport. If you don't know what you want, maybe you should have spent your money getting a Ford Escort  ;D ;D ;D

my opinion dont wreck a sport  racing for a replica but if a 2 door 1300 comes along then make it a bit more powerful  ;D

Theo the Ford Escort has the same issues.
The Escort guys buy a 2 door Ghia and make it into a 1.6 Harrier replica and then other guys convert a Harier to an RS2000 replica then the guys buy a 2 door genuine RS2000 and convert it to a RS1800 Replica and so on  ;D  ;D  ;D

As for making my mind up guys i want to go down the original Sport route as i do love them but there is always a small doubt and mainly temptation as there has been some real nice replicas done and shown on this forum but i guess most peoples advice is to stick with what you have got and count myself lucky to have a Sport.