131mirafiori forum

Probably misguidedly i treated myself to a new limited slip diff for a 131 sport from a company called Bacci trasmissioni.  Their web page looks good and from the many differentials they offer they seem to specialise in Fiats.
I have never spoken to them directly but they answered all my emails very quickly and in good but not perfect English.  A discounted rate was soon proposed and i parted with just over a grand.
Irresponsibly and ill thought i paid by debit card and it arrived within 48 hours.

 I am not experienced enough to attempt a diff swap so i took my axle to a local axle specialist who rang me back the same day telling me it doesnt fit.  It has a different number of splines and takes a slightly smaller driveshaft.
I emailed the company immediately and a few days later i receive a reply stating that my axle 'must be different' and can i forward dimensions of my diff so that they can investigate further.
By this time my axle is back in the car so Toad from this forum very, very kindly and at a lot of trouble, mailed me comprehensive dimensions and pics of his spare diff that was out of a typical 131 axle.
His dimensions are exactly the same as mine.
Bacci Trasmissioni are adamant that they have sold this lsd to U.K customers before and there has never been a problem. They have refused to refund but have offered to exchange for another lsd in their catalogue.
What use is that??
I cannot think of an economical way out of this other than choosing another diff that i can resell for perhaps half money.
Has anyone got any better ideas?

This doesn't help you but I have equal negative experiences with MARA in Milano, a specialist in Lancia parts. Bought there a used "revised" gearbox but the second gear stayed on holiday( didn't work). They offered me to do the revision again and share the costs, hahahaha. I bought another gearbox in Holland, not even 300 meters from where I live, cynical isn't it ;)

I think stories like that are quite common with Italian suppliers and possibly others outside Italy too. Things like that shouldn't happen in the UK as any item supplied must be "fit for purpose" so if a UK supplier says "it fits a Fiat 131 Sport" then it has to or it's not fit for the purpose  it was sold so you can always get the right thing or your money back.

If you're in the UK, when dealing with foreign suppliers it's a good idea to use a credit card and not a debit card. Your contract to supply the goods is then with the credit card company so if you don't get a product "fit for purpose" you simply get your money back from the UK credit card company. Even PayPal in the UK offer "buyer protection" which they use as a marketing advantage but in reality they are legally obliged to offer it in the UK. The problem with PayPal is that you're never sure in which country your payment is handled until after you pay. When buying from abroad and paying with PayPal the payment is usually handled in Switzerland or Belgium so buyer protection will not apply.

Can you not find out what car the diff actually fits and try to sell it on ebay?

I would be tempted to go to Italy with the diff, hit the man who sold it to you over the head with it and say "YOU make it fit then!"  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Theo I like your idea  ;D

  Now if your not into staying completely fiat how about getting a slipper for a Mk2 Escort and have your self built a hybrid axle like Little Toad is wearing, it should be good for 200 horse ?   The Fiat 131 drive-shaft fit the ford sun wheels/ differential as standard,   you just weld the fiat axle tubes onto the ford centre or pigs head,   Call Gartrac fabrications in Godalming Surrey try 01428 682263/4 tell them you have been speaking to Roger with the other 131 and they should be able to get the drawings out of my one. Have a look on the Little Toad thread, there are a few picture on there, it's dirty but then it has been well used, but remember this will still use the original fiat wheel as well  ;D

   Regards

          Roger.........

According to Bacci Trasmissioni this differential only fits a Fiat 131 racing/sport.
Guy crofts forum have been unable to identify it.
I agree it must fit something. Maybe the company has been taken over at some time & bad stock has been masqueraded to suit the ledger.
The only way i can probably sell it is on ebay Italia stating that it was purchased new within the last few months from Bacci Trasmissioni but is now not required due to unforeseen circumstances.
Someone will get stuck with it but hopefully i can deflect any problems back to Bacci.

Why doesn't it fit? Is it too big or small for the axle case, the wrong shape or what? Do you have any pictures?

Their differential requires a slightly smaller driveshaft, is two teeth different and doesnt sit centrally in the axle casing.  It may as well be for a renault.  Guy crofts forum could not help therefore i very much doubt it is for a Fiat. 

Hi!
Cant you try to get Enzo Michelini "fiat 131 abarth" to help you, he sure knows all about Fiat 131 and other cars and can speak Italian with the company who sold it to you, i would pay him money for that help!

Since i don't know Enzo in person i don't know if he will be able to help you out, but he seems like a really nice guy and a true fiat entusiast!

I think if it does not fit the car it suppossed to they should take it back and pay the money you spent back to you!

Cheers Alf

Not too sure if this is any help but, My green Sport had a later type series 3 diff which had bigger and longer half shafts than the original sport diff. The casings differ in the 131 range too series 2/3

Halfshafts were not interchangeable either.

Good point. 131 and for that matter 132 / Argenta axles are all similar but different ;)

Not sure if this helps but I have one of there diffs and I could measure it for you. Mine was bought for the 124cc as it is clutch type LSD which is far better then the quaife one I had in the car. It is also adjusted with plates added which is a massive bonus.

The 124cc has smaller axles then the 131 so it could be possible that its more like the one I own.

With regards to the escort diff, I also have one of them from 131. This is a good option and works very well but this doesn't really help your current situation I know!

The only help i can give is i have purchased two slip diff from Romario Bacci for
131 Racing / Sport and it fit well!  but i know that the Volumex Racing / Sport and also the 131 series 3
have a other rear axle the drive shaft are bigger like Argenta.

Here some picture from 131 Racing / Sport original and Bacci slip diff:

Enzo

Next!

Well done Enzo from germany.  You have solved the riddle.  That is the same diff as Bacci have sold me.
Your pictures seem to confirm that the German 131 sport/racing and probably most european racings have the 'standard' diff hence why Bacci believe their product is correct.
It must be the U.K and possibly other RHD variants that are the odd ones out.
Sadly, Bacci who specialize in Fiat differentials failed to notice the difference despite being in existence since 1970.
 At least  i can try to sell it on german or italian ebay without fear of a comeback.
An expensive lesson learnt here. Hopefully my loss will deter other fellow 131 owners from dealing with foreign companies who lack morals and experience. However i still find it hard to believe Bacci have not done this sort of thing before.
Anybody who would like a brand new 131racing LHD diff for a bargain ?400 + postage please mail me on r3bel299@gmail.com.
Many thanks to Enzo for unquestionable evidence.

I would check you don't have a series 3 axle from a super fitted to your car. As noted above they are slightly different.

I'd second that. I see no reason to have different axles for LHD and RHD cars and I never thought there was such a difference. The diffs on the 131 Sport are notoriously weak (I've wrecked a few of them  :-[) so it's likely that many 131 Sports have had a differential or axle change in their life.

Need pictures of your axle. Later type are longer. I would keep hold of the lsd.    when i get back, i will post some pics.

I would not know how to tell the difference between a series 2 or 3 axle without dismantling and measuring it and that would be to me a massive job probably with a very likely negative result.
 When my axles were dismantled, three of them over the last year, they all looked identical and crucially two had the correct diff ratios 39/10 and one was 41/10 which is my spare axle. As far as i can see from data sheets the series 3 axles, regardless of which model, did not have these ratios. I would think it unlikely that my car had a diff swap then someone managed to get an original diff back in.
Bearing in mind the Bacci diff had different splines and a different driveshaft width it also was not going to sit central in its casing i assume the diff casing would be visibly different from the outside.
If anyone has external pics of a series 3 axle (the centre part) i would be able to compare.
Thankyou to everyone who contributed to this topic.

Here are the best pictures that I have from my S3 Super 2000. Hope they help.... :)

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/P1190263.jpg)

(http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx305/kev132/P1190253.jpg)

I thought the only difference was,  one is a little wider which can be measured from the outside.

Thank you kevin for getting those pics on line so quickly.  That is a very tidy 131 underside!
 To be honest i cannot visually tell any difference. However it may be worth noting some time ago when i had the 1st axle dismantled i bought a new 131 axle cover gasket from a foreign, probably italian, ebay site. It cost only a few quid but when i gave it to the axle fitter this did not fit either. I still have that gasket and this could well fit a series 3 or a european 131 racing but it definetly did not fit mine.
I note on Kevins pics there appears to be some numbers stamped into the main body casing.
I shall look at mine later and report what number sequence i have.
   Thanks to all concerned....

The only difference is the casing is a little wider which can be measured from the outside and the bevel gear splines where the halfshaft end splines meet.

S2 Sport etc diff plate cover has an indentation in it, where as the S3 is all sought of oval.

Have some pictures, will load up tonight.

I cannot make out hardly any of the numbers clearly but from looking at both my identical 131r axles these numbers are definetly different so further examination is meaningless.
I hope sev's pics may give more information....

I had both diffs out today and both will fit either series 2/3 casings. It's the halfshaft fitment that you would have a problem. On the series 3 diff, the splines are a lot bigger and the shaft is longer. If the diff does not fit at all then I would say it is wrong. Send it back for an exchange. They must of sent it wrong.