131mirafiori forum

found this on an other site :::::

Black metal, is recycled metal. Russia and Australia. provided Fiat/ Lancia, with this metal. Because it was bits of metal squeezed together, eventually, the metal, would expand, and start to rust inside out, reason why, it fell apart like wafers! The word 'black' is commonly used for recycled metal, as it is darker in colour, and impure
Brand new 131's and 124;s, already had rust in their inner and outer wings, when in the showroom!. Amount of cars, that needed a respray, before selling, was quite high. The Fiat dealer, i worked for, had a very busy paint shop!

The metal was squeezed together, then cut in to small pieces, before it was melted down. All the impuritives are left in the metal. Once it is made in to sheet metal etc, the impuritives begin the procedure of wanting to seperate.
As this metal is made from things like steel tins, which are already recycled metal, the metal was very poor indeed. Reason it broke up so quickly. Not just rust.


 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

The thing I don't understand then is how NOS panels turn up after being stored for years and are not rusty ???

Do some homework on metallurgy before you post such bollocks.

Im with you TAS131 on this one,
I have been a Welding Inspector for 30+ years and ive dealt with my fair share of different materials from different sources.
Scrap metal is still recycled to day it forms a major % of any metals purchased from any sheet/plate/pipe mill, look at how materials are procesed after forming and you might get some answers to why FIAT cars and other! rusted away in the 70/80s.
Ever wondered whay a new NOS panel hasent rusted away, go look at corrosiojn processes and how steel corrodes its a lot to do with the amount of exposed surface versus the total area of surface of material. Paint a foot square panel and make a pin hole in the surace then leave a panel completly bare put them both out in the typical english weather and the small pin hole will have corroded through without the other panel not likely to have even started to corrode.
Steve

Here's another one:

Yes, the Fiat group used poor quality metal back in the seventies. They imported it cheap from countries such as Tchechoslawakija (is that spelled right? ;D) and Poland.
Indeed the metal wasn't "pure". And sure, a lot of cars were struggeling with rust from inside the material. But that's not the main reason why Fiats/Lancia already rusted in the brochure, as to say.

Why many cars were already in bad shape after the first year, or sooner, had two reasons:

1st; the lack of protection from the inside and the outside. My first car, for example, was a 1979 131 Racing i bought in 1987. It didn't even have a layer of paint on the inside. The very thin layer of primer was visible everywhere and some parts of the body didn't even have a spray whatsoever. I'm sure some of you will have noticed this as well.
Back in those days the Fiat group did cut in expenses.

2nd; look at the construction of the various models... Take our 131 for example: you'd have to be very stupid to design a hole in the floorpanel just behind the front wheels.... Gallons of water would be sprayed up and without anyway to exit it remained inside the floorpanel. Especially there where the two sheets of the floor meet each other. And without protection material inside it was, and still is, only a matter of time...
Same with the construction around the A-pillar. And what about the spring turrets, front and rear?
I'm sure everybody knows about the same problem with the doors. And how about the corners from rear panels, all models?
Altough beautiful disigned on the outside, the cars were just poorly constructed on the inside.

That's the reason why the cars from that era were mainly destroyed. Through the years i have owned and scrapped a lot of 131's and some other Fiats, but they ALL had the same problems.

I agree with you Tas131 too ;D

The Fiat recycled metal is an Urban Legend ! Alfa Romeo had the same rust issues as Fiat and so did the Japanese cars at that time. It was the primers, paint's and that sealer that went rock hard and let the water and damp in. Fiat left bear metal in the cavity's and welded seams and they rusted the second they were made. I have seen a good few 131's that had a full rust treatment cavity wax injection when new and no rot.

Gee isn't that a bit harsh Mick when Jason was only posting comments he found on another site? I'm not sure if he agrees or he disagrees with the views he has shared.

In any event I'm not a metallurgist (similar to most of us on here I'd say) but 131s do rust spectacularly and in areas that can't always be described as water traps. I seem to remember someone posting the phrase "surface rust" on here a few years back (It may have been me) which prompted a flurry of comments along the lines that there was no such thing and that rust begins deep within the metal. If a steel part is made up of reused steel isn't it likely to be more susceptible to rusting than the manufacturing process that doesn't use recycled metal? I don't know for certain but it seems a reasonable idea to me.... :)

Anyway, thanks Jason... for re-starting the age old debate... :)

 ;D ;D

I always wondered what happened to the chaps from that program from a few years ago,

  GRUMPY OLD MEN,

  There all on here.   ;D

They're all on here.

I am no metalurgist either, just an old panel beater.
The two things blamed for the Fiat rust problem here in Australia were that the metal had a high sulphur content & that they shipped to Australia as deck cargo.
I personaly thought that it was because at some place, some time they were parked down wind of a Chrysler.  ;D :)
O.

That was metal  ???  :D

The shame is cars don't rust like that any more but who cares about modern cars as they are so dull.
I remember an old fiat main dealer in surrey telling me they had loads of 128's that were left in fields for two years or so and they had to resray them before they sold them new as they were all rooten where they had sat in that field !

Turn the key...i bet it still starts :D
Or give it a coat of clear & use it as a rat rod look.