131mirafiori forum

Very nervous day today. MoT time for my Abarth. :-\

Did it pass OK ?

Thankfully, yes it did.  ;D

Next job before the Trans-European Trek is to renew the clutch........

Will you be taking it to the run in Ireland this September ? Or one of the 4 door 131S ?

Wow, all three 131s with an MOT now - nice one  ;D

Yes Steve, very pleased to have three of my 131s MoT'd  ;D

Haven't finally decided whether I'm attending M2M just yet, although I hope to.  :) The best car to do such a run is probably the Abarth although I'd love to do it in one the Specials too - it's nice to have a choice!  8)

well done Simon ;D

A bit of a hiccup in the repair of my Abarth I'm afraid to say, something which could see it off the road for a while unless a 'bodge' is applied to it.

Had the clutch stripped out today to reveal that the firmness in the action was caused by a broken bearing sleeve. The clutch itself hasn't worn too badly although obviously now that it is stripped down it would be useful to replace the whole clutch rather than just the broken sleeve and worn out bearing, but therein lies the rub, the clutch is bigger than the standard 2000TC unit (which is 215mm) at 228mm, which is the same as the Lancia Beta Volumex. Trouble is that whilst we can fit a 215 friction plate under the bigger cover plate the cover plate itself has uniquely positioned mounting fixings, which differ from the 215 cover plate. :-\ So, what to do?

We are going to replace the broken sleeve and worn bearing (otherwise nothing will work) but I'd really like to replace the whole clutch, the search for which is so far drawing a bit of blank.

Ideas and thoughts please, bearing in mind that ideally I'd like to be driving it to Italy in three/four weeks for the 40th Anniversary 3MA.

Get your existing 228mm friction plate relined and the springs on your pressure plate replaced. I'll get you the contact details of the guy who does the Gamma clutches for the Consortium.

Thanks Theo. Do you know how long it usually takes?

I can see Lancia Delta clutches on ebay measuring 228mm.

I presume you've searched online Si?

I'll look again Kev, Thanks.

Not sure how long it takes but shouldn't be more than a week to 10 days. I've asked my Gamma buddies for the details as I can't find them. Hopefully I'll have an answer soon.

The Lancia Zeta clutch is 228mm and 21 splines. How many splines for the Abarth clutch?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-Zeta-2-1-12v-TD-VECO-Clutch-Kit-07-96-12-99-/310334927444 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-Zeta-2-1-12v-TD-VECO-Clutch-Kit-07-96-12-99-/310334927444)

20 splines I believe

Hi Simon,  there's some here.....228 with 20 splines.  I'll email you the whole book

The people who remanufacture the Gamma clutches for us are http://www.precisionclutch.co.uk/ (http://www.precisionclutch.co.uk/). We send them old, rusty worn-out clutch assemblies and they come back looking brand new. And they are not expensive either. They should be able to sort you out.

Thanks Theo. Here's hoping.

The Abarth clutch isn't just larger diameter it has a greater number of springs in the friction plate too, 8 instead of 6, 4 of which are larger than the other two, so diameter isn't the only factor to consider when seeking a replacement.

Another pic of the complete assembly - note the short length of 'tube'. This should still be fixed in the gearbox!  :o

Simon what gearbox is in it same as any other 131?

It's not exactly the same as a 'standard' 131 box but some items are similar. We've managed to strip the sleeve out of a old noisy 131 5-speed box which looks the same so we hope will be ok.

I do have options for the 3MA run however -

1) Re-install the clutch as it is but with a new bearing and sleeve. There appears to be plenty of 'meat' left on the plates and it wasn't slipping so it'll probably be good for a few miles more yet. This then gives me time to seek out a new or NOS clutch kit.

2) I could use the orange Special, but it's rather 'untested' having sat virtually unused for the last two years.

3) I could use the yellow Special, but again this is 'untested' on such a long trip.

I lean towards 1) although I'd also like some day to take a Special 'back home'. :-\

I think the number of springs in tte friction plate is not a vital requirement and different makes might have different number of springs. The diametre and especially the number of splines though must be the same. Putting the same clutch back in doesn't seem that silly to me as it looks as if there's plenty of life left on the friction plate. But give Precision Clutch a call as just relining the friction plate will give you plenty more time to find a replacement assembly.  Is the bearing the same as standard 131 and will you change that?

Yes, funny that you should mention the number of springs......

I've basically spent the last few days trawling the 'net for a full clutch kit but to little avail, however I have found a Valeo friction plate on ebay.it listed for a 131 Abarth and it only has 6 springs, all of the same size. (Can't find the diameter listed in the advert unfortunately). It's my considered opinion that the Beta VX clutch that's fitted is itself a 'best fit' and is actually NOT to the original OEM specs, which just makes matters more clouded.

I'll certainly contact Precision Clutch and see what they have to say about timings and costs.

I believe the bearing is a 'standard' 2000TC bearing. 

Simon stick a 131 racing box in it & a new 215mm kit for this year & no probs i reckon? should work for ya & cheapest option??

181260568060 Ebay item no.

It says 131 Abarth clutch ?180 .. Doesn't give measurements but maybe worth an email..

Also Berni  Motori lists this part ..

Art.       Description   Application
ABA 2286         Sprung clutch disc ? 215mm.    124 Rallye
ABA 2287         Reinforced pressure plate ? 215mm.    124 Rallye
ABA 2291         Sprung clutch disc ? 228mm.    131 Rallye
ABA 2292         Reinforced pressure plate ? 228mm.    131 Rallye

BERNI MOTORI srl
Via Monte Vioz,7
26847 MALEO (LO)
Tel:0377 589138
Fax:0377 589142
Speaks English as he is from wales originally.. So no language problems

Thanks Dave.

I contacted Berni Motors in Italy only to be told that they won't deal directly with me and for me to contact 'their UK agent' Middle Barton Garage  ::) So, I emailed Tony castle-Miller at MBG and he told me they don't actually buy their clutches from Italy as they are poor quality (!) and he then quoted me on a Helix fast-road unit, but unfortunately the wrong size  :-\, so, whilst we are collectively looking for a clutch of the right dimensions (imperial 9 inch apparently) the 'old' clutch is being refitted with a new bearing and 'slider' - this at least will (should) enable me to use the Abarth for 3MA and give us a bit of breathing space in which to find a replacement unit.

My god unbelieveable ... So Italy have the part but won't supply because there agent in England would have to sell it to you , BUT their English agent Middle Barton can't supply it & suggest an aftermarket replacement that won't actually be the correct one ..
I thought things like this only happened in ireland  :P

I would get back onto Berni Motori & explain .. If they have the correct unit some exception could be made...
After all it's a sale for them , money in the bank .

That's it in a nutshell Dave, yes. Amazing isn't it? ::)

I'd have to say however that Berni Motors list the clutch but I've found that listing doesn't actually mean they've got it in stock!  ::)

Anyhow, the fabulous news is that I've literally just heard that my Arbie is all put back together with a few new parts and a fresh MoT so I'm on the train to collect her on Monday! I seriously can't wait! I'm so excited to get her back - hate it when she's not in her usual space in my garage  :-\ She's part of the family....

Look out Italy here we come! ;D 8)

Good news then Simon ;D

At about 2.10pm today I finally pulled my Abarth on to my drive at home after a 160 mile trip back from it's short holiday and MoT. Took the 0816 from Farnborough Main Station, via central London and St Pancras - all rather painless I'm happy to report. ;D

Arbie was burning oil on the exhaust manifold as I drove home, which I have now located to a leak at the bottom of the dizzy (exhaust cam driven). Other than that all was ok until I actually got home when at which point it started to run like a total cow! Not happy. :-\ I'm too tired to look this afternoon, but tomorrow I'll investigate further. Hopefully it's nothing too serious. ::)

Right guys,

A couple of issues with the Abarth having got it home - oil leak from bottom of (exhaust cam driven) dizzy, misfire when hot and clutch 'feel' too close to the floor.

The misfire I think is a dodgy spark plug, so I have ordered a set of NGK Iridiums with resistors to replace the set I fitted in November 2006 (:o didn't realise it was so long ago!) and I'll replace the leads if that doesn't do it.

The clutch travel I shall sort by adjustment of the cable.

The oil leak I'm a bit nervous about touching, mainly due to the fact that removing the dizzy will throw out the timing. Yes, I've done the job of removing the distributor lots of times in the past, just not recently. Don't want to muck it up. I'm told there's a rubber 'o'-ring which could have been damaged - where is it and how big? Any ideas? Is there no 'gasket' between the dizzy and cam box or is it an 'interference' fit?

All useful comments and suggestions (related to this subject!) gratefully received. 8)

Quick update - its GAME OVER for the Abarth and this years 3MA😩 I'm gutted! 😞The dizzy is allowing oil to pass up its shaft into the body of the unit. It'll need a total strip and rebuild if not full replacement. Incidentally, there is no 'o'-ring to replace.

Anyone got a spare Abarth dizzy they have no use for?

You must be gutted about the Arbarth Simon  :(

If I had a distributor you be be welcome to it. Is their no way you can get the distributor overhauled before you leave for 3ma  ???

There must be an oil seal on the shaft somewhere. Something like this?

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/FIAT-UNO-TURBO-1400CC-DISTRIBUTOR-OIL-SEAL-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/1d8AAOxy9xhSDNS5/$T2eC16R,!w0E9szNYh(pBSDNS4q0L!~~60_35.JPG)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-UNO-TURBO-1400CC-DISTRIBUTOR-OIL-SEAL-/331040553141?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4d138df8b5 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-UNO-TURBO-1400CC-DISTRIBUTOR-OIL-SEAL-/331040553141?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4d138df8b5)

I'll come round at the weekend if you like and I'm sure we'll be able to do something with it.....

Can't u change to  a block disy from one of the other s  :-\
 also found this all 124 spider ones will fit ..

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23544 (http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23544)

That's the dizzy Jas, just got to find a refurb kit/metal washer - within two weeks. :-\

Guys

I need your assistance in finding any supplier or repair workshop for Magneti Marelli distributors. In particular I'm after an internal oil seal (looks a bit like a valve stem oil seal only bigger) which sits below the bearing in a Marelli S144P cam drive distributor.

I have found a supplier in Virginia, USA (International Automotive) but they haven't yet confirmed stock. I'd appreciate it if someone had a European contact for such items, better still a UK one. ;D

Thanks guys.

If you know the inside and outside diameter sizes you can get a seal from Simply Bearings (http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Seals-Viton+Rubber/c19_4462/index.html (http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Seals-Viton+Rubber/c19_4462/index.html)). They?ve supplied me with all kinds of seals for the Gamma engine so shouldn?t have a problem supplying the one you want. If you can go for the read Viton rubber seal as they are much better quality than the black ones and suitable for modern oils.

Try these guys -they normally have a quick turn around


http://www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk

Euroautoricambi in Australia have them on ebay!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FIAT-124-CC-SPIDER-131-LANCIA-DISTRIBUTOR-OIL-SEAL-/350478172047 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FIAT-124-CC-SPIDER-131-LANCIA-DISTRIBUTOR-OIL-SEAL-/350478172047)

(http://i.ebayimg.com/03/!Bnu+R9!B2k~$(KGrHqQOKiIEtlNUmFi!BLkt1qBBtg~~_35.JPG)

Their "Expedited Int'l Shipping" might get it to the UK in time.

Also probably worth contacting DTR European Sports Cars (http://www.dtrsports.com/ (http://www.dtrsports.com/) -Tel 020 8645 5050) as they specialise in the 124 Spider and may have the seals in stock.

And Spiderpoint.De might be a useful source...

They speak English and will go to their warehouse and pick up the part and describe it while you're on the phone....

http://www.spider-point.com/?___store=english&___from_store=default

DTR don't stock them, they told me Middle Barton Garage, so I have spoken to Tony C-M and he's going to check the part numbers and get back to me.

If all else fails I can buy the Australian one and hope it arrives in time to be fitted before we leave.

I've checked SpiderPoint and they don't appear to sell the seal on it's own but rather in a dizzy overhaul kit for the Princely sum of 165 Euros plus shipping!!! :o

Australian seal purchased - fingers crossed  :)

Unfortunately International Auto Parts in Virginia USA are out of stock of the seal until the end of the month  :'(

I have sent SpiderPoint an enquiry through their website so we'll see if they're able to provide the seal on it's own.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Fiat-124-Spider-Coupe-Pininfarina-Zundverteiler-Uberholsatz-2-x-Lager-Wedy-/360551563517?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item53f28c40fd

i think this will fit!

Purchased these too! DHL delivery promised for Saturday! Thanks Enzo. ;D

Theo, do you fancy coming to my house on Sunday and getting your hands dirty on my Abarth? (again)Ppppplllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :P :P :P :P

Hi Simon,
I would love to come and help, but for me to much miles, maybe some day!  ;)
we will see.
But i think Theo will do it  :-*

Enzo,

I think that if my 131 Abarth comes to your garage it will be for more than just the replacement of an oil seal  ;D 8)

I too hope that Mr. Theo can again come to my rescue - with moral and emotional support even if he doesn't actually do the job himself. ;)  ;D ;D

Sure, I have a big hammer whivh is an essential tool for this job  ;D Let me know what time the coffee will be ready and I'll be there  ;)

They look like they should do the job!! Hopefully the couriers are as good as their word..........You will need more tippex, you left it on the bench.... ;D  (or I left it on the bench.... ;) )

I have plenty of tippex and a strobe light  :D

A strobe light will be no good - if you set the timing to the marks it actually 'pinks'  :P Seriously!  ::) Only an Italian manufacturer would make a performance engine with the ignition timing marks in the wrong place! 8) 8)

Thanks Theo. Coffee will be on all day Sunday so please get here whenever best suits you. Obviously if the part doesn't arrive as planned then I'll let you know and we'll have to abort the mission - at least until it does arrive. :)

Chris, I've had that Tippex since 2010 so it's part of the family  ;D ;D Take care of it for me. I forgot to give you something too - will rectify that as soon as I can.

Assuming the timing is about right now, a strobe light can be used to set a mark before the distributor is removed and then used to set the timing to the same setting as before. That'll be easier and more accurate than tippex although it'll be useful to use tippex as well to get things statically more or less back in the right place.

Euro spec twin cams should normally be timed at 10 degrees BTDC but with 'modern' unleaded low octane fuels 5 degrees BTDC is recommended. I run mine at just over 10 degrees BTDC on 95 octane without any problems. Then again my car is so noisy I can't hear the pinking  ;D If your car pinks at normal timing it could mean something else. If the bob weight springs are weak it could be that it's advancing the ignition too soon and that would cause pinking. I have a bag of various bob weight springs and I'll bring those with me too. 

Too technical Theo :-)

My car usually runs fine, with no pinking, but it does need a slight tweek after yesterday's removal.

Seal also now on it's way from Middle Barton Garage - so I hope one of them arrives before Sunday and that it's suitable. :-\

Thanks for everybody's help and assistance with this.  8)

Even if not by Sunday, they should certainly arrive before setting off for 3ma14. And I'm sure at least one of them will fit. Then you'll have plenty spare to sell on eBay but call them "Abarth" seals and sell them for ?200 each  ;D ;D ;D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Simon,  Glad to hear that parts have been found and are on the way.  I was sad to hear that your Abarth was not to be in the running this year.  I always look forward to seeing pictures of your special car. Good luck on the distributor rebuild and happy motoring.  With 2 weeks left to the start of your yearly adventure I'll be following along via the computer.  Good Luck,  Mike Stinson p.s. I wish I could be there with you all

Thanks very much for your kind words Mike. I appreciate it.

To be honest we're not out of the woods just yet with the dizzy, but I think now that we have the same part (at least I hope it's the same part  ;D) coming from very different parts of the World, our chances of success have increased.

Luckily I'm in the enviable position that if for some reason my Abarth does not get the repair it needs at least I have two other useable 131s I can call upon for 'European Duty' if pressed  ;)

My 'little seal problem' has really brought members of this forum together and I'm quite sure that without it I'd have struggled much more than I have to find a suitable supplier. :) The wonders of the internet  ;D

Theo, Kevin and I are always amazed by how far reaching our little website and 'community' has become and I'm sure we're quite proud of it too. :) I'm also quite sure that between Theo, Kevin and Rene there'll be plenty of pics and reports of 3MA14 for all to view. 8)

We wish you could be with us too, perhaps one year, if we win the Lotto, we'll ship our cars to the US for a 3MA  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Simon,  Better yet... If I win the lotto I'll ship all your cars here.  The idea sounds so fun, better go get a ticket, they draw tonight.  Mike Stinson

Good luck Simon!
Just in case: You could add one day before and after 3ma14 and we can put a 2000TC engine in (to keep up) and out (to keep it original) your 'S' in my or better Gerald's Garage  ;)
Although I'm optimistic that this won't be neccessary: Lampredis might be easy to break but for sure they're hard to kill - I'll keep my fingers crossed anyway.

Like the idea of US-3ma. But I think changing the T-shirts  from "3ma-european-tour" to "3ma-world-tour" is far easier than winning the lottery :'(

Thanks for your 'kind offer' Rene  ;D but hopefully a 2000TC being dropped into my 'S' won't be necessary now. Just look at what the Post Lady delivered at 13.30hrs today........ ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thanks to Tony Castle-Miller at Middle Barton Garage for saving the day!!  8) 8)

Things are looking up.........let's hope it fits  :o

Well does it fit??? ;)

Won't know until Sunday Sid, when my Technical Adviser and I will attempt the repair.  ;)

Having spent six and a half hours on Sunday doing a 30 minute seal replacement  :o I am pleased to report that the oil leak from the dizzy has now been fixed. 8)

The reason for the extended time is that the taper pin removal wasn't exactly easy  :o Lots of bashing, filing, more bashing, WD40, bashing, etc., etc.,  >:( Suffice it to say that refitting took seconds  ::)

So, this morning I drove it 75 miles to my office in Kent and am happy to report that aside from two small issues she ran sweetly - although fuel economiy is an issue. Almost half atank for 75 miles  :o

The two small issues are  - a small water leak from the radiator cap and a loose battery earth clamp (stripped bolt). Will have these sorted before the weekend.

Great news Si....except for the fuel economy...or lack of it.  ???

Can you imagine your mood if you were trying to keep with the convoy on the interesting bits...... in the Special?!!

Now, the tables are turned and we'll all be enviously admiring the handling from your IRS!!

Good news Simon ;D
Question does the stradale have limited slip differential?

I am pleased that the Abarth managed it's morning M3, M25, M26, M20 commute today without too much incident, but I'll feel much happier if it gets me back home too!  ;D ;)

I blame Theo for the poor fuel economy  ;) as he turned almost every screw on my carb on Sunday. ::) We'll have to find which ones he turned in which direction and then turn them back. :o :D

I have no idea whether the car has an LSD Sid, I've just always assumed that the engine was never powerful enough to spin the wheels.  ;) ;D

 :'(

I'm sure the M3, M25, M26 and M20 traffic had a lot more to do with it than my screw-twiddling....

Ordinarily Theo I might agree with you about the English motorway network being instrumental on poor fuel economy, especially the M25, but as I left home at 0545hrs this morning and maintained a very steady speed I think it had little to do with it today. :-\

OK, in that case I'll blame the poor fuel economy on someone's insistence to retard the ignition  ;D

"The one who smiles when something goes wrong is the one who thought of someone to blame it on!"  ;D ;D ;D ;D 

Nice try Theo  ::) :D

When (if?) I get home I'll dig out the carb exploded diagram I have and find out which one of the screws is for the mixture. ;)

The timing is in the right place - no pinking and plenty of power under all conditions  8)

Simon , the mixture only adjust the mixture at idle hense the name ' idle mixture screw ' ;D ;D
 it must be the timing  :)

Er, yes Jason, thanks for that  ;) ;D

 Good news Si, glad you have it sorted......................... 8)

Thanks Chris.

The saying "it never rains but it pours" is certainly true  :-\ The regulator is playing up on the alternator now  :'( Two, yes TWO reconditioned alternators purchased from eBay, a 45A and a 55A as when I had my original alternator repaired 10 years ago they told me it was from a 131 Diesel - but didn't tell me the amp-rating. :-\

Someone remind me why I own old cars  ??? ::)

'Standard' 131s had a 45 Amp alternator from Bosch or Magnetti Marelli although after-market Lucas alternators fit as well. Diesels, Sport/Racing/Super 2000 had a 55 Amp alternator fitted. Automatics and cars with air conditioning had a 65 Amp alternator. My rule is "if it fits it's fine!" and I currently have a 'standard' 45 Amp Magnetti Marelli as it was new and very cheap on eBay  :D If your alternator is a Bosch then I have a few spare regulators and I'll pack them in the "3ma14 car-rescue pack" before we set off. I'll pack a spare alternator too so don't worry  ;)

A 3MA rescue pack. What a good idea. While I know that we all pack our own bits and pieces perhaps it would be a good idea to list what we're bringing to avoid duplication and possibly spot gaps?

In Heidi I'll have...

Full set of s/hand coolant hoses.
Water pump
Rad/oil/petrol caps
Assorted bulbs
Plugs
Jubillee clips/cable ties/electrical connectors
Engine oil, brake fluid, water
Fan belt
Some wheel bearings
Fuel pump (I think)

Not bringing the spare Bosch alternator regulators?  ??? Simon might need one of those and I know you got some spare ones in Germany in 2010  ;) ;D ;D

Yes there is one in the car but...as I think mine is MM (don't know if they fit or not) I didn't want to invite public ridicule!!  ;D ;)

You've some memory Mr Theo - That's from 3MA10!  :)

I've purchased a 45A and a 55A alternator and these will be with my spare new water pump (complete with gaskets  ;D) under the front passenger seat.  ;D

I never go anywhere in any of my 131s without a basic Rescue Pack, which always includes a full set of tools and spanners and a trolley jack with axle stands. The spares I carry are usually -

water pump and 5 litres of water
engine oil
ignition leads
spark plugs
clutch cable
brake cable
fuel pump
dizzy cap
ignition leads
alternator belt
plus many smaller items such as bulbs and fuses, assorted electrical connectors, nuts, bolts, washers, etc etc etc

......all 'just in case' you understand  ;D ;D ;D My logic is, if I have it with me then I won't need it - I hope! 8)

While I often claim to be senile (which can be very handy) and sometimes I think I really am  :-[ my memory is still pretty good. I believe I remember how many you bought and how much you paid for them too  ;) ;D And I remember the place when you rejoined the group as if I was there yesterday!  :o Mind you, I have trouble remembering where I was yesterday....  :-\

Bosch alternators and their regulators are quite different to Magnetti Marelli and their bits and nothing is interchangeable between them. The Bosch units have a single regulator which also includes the brushes and the triode for controlling the charge light. The Magnetti Marelli alternators, which I find are much more reliable than Bosch, have a separate regulator and brush holder and the triode is inside the alternator togerther with the rectifier diodes.

Well you're certainly covered if two sets of ignition leads break Si!!!  ;D

I think between the 2 of you, you've covered anything I'm likely to need so I'll unload my "3ma14 car-rescue pack" to save space and weight and to increase my fuel efficiency during 3ma  ;D ;D ;D ;D

That's what I was thinking when I heard that Si was taking the trolley jack! I dont want that flying around unrestrained in the event of a sudden stop!  :o

Plus with all that extra weight it explains why the Abarth is so slow in a straight line!  ;D

I'm not going to take that bait Mr Doyle.  ::) ::)

I think the only spare I'll take with me will be a starter (the only part that failed me more than once in 11 years)  ;)  :o - but alas, there's still the MMS I invented in Bad Bentheim: http://www.131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?topic=5549.0

Great invention the MMS  :o Saves so much weight   ;)  I'll remove the starter tommorrow.....  ;D ;D