131mirafiori forum

82 degrees fan switch to keep the engine cool in traffic :www.eeuroparts.com

http://www.eeuroparts.com/Main/PartDetail.aspx?id=8547572%2f82

Miro

Miro it dont list 131 but will it fit & work in 131 racing?

IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF THE THREAD, WHICH I BELIEVE IS EXACTLY THE SAME.

Miro

PS there is another source:

http://montehospital.net/shop/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=switch.

These are definity the same thread.

M       

Hi Miro,
I'm thinking of buying one also. From the web site below there is a choice of two, which one do you think is best suited for the Racing please?


http://montehospital.net/shop/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=switch.

Rad switch: PP4055
Rad switch: MH8301

Guys, if you decide that you know better than the engine designers and use a lower temperature fan switch, remember that it's a useless exercise unless you also replace the water thermostat. There's no point in having a fan switch with a lower temperature than your water thermostat!

I agree with Theo, it doesn't make sence...
Fan switch setting should be close to engine thermostat setting
This switch will only activate the E-fan when there is no driving speed (or ram air to the radiator)
this is a low engine load and the limited capacity of the fan (compared to driving speed) will easily reject the heat and keep the engine temp to its best.

Henk and Thotos !

I beg to disagree ! ( strongly but with some important conditions).

It does make a lot of sense but requires a low temperature thermostat as well !!!  These are not exclusive but complementary conditions.

Obviously the assumption is that you do not drive the car in cold season (only warm/hot as I guess most of us do) , and that you either operate the car in rally/race conditions or lots of city traffic.

I would also recommend using in-head thermostat. This requires removal of a standard thermostat and direct feed from the radiator to water pump as well as and blocking off the T-piece which in standard cars provides for re-circulation of cooling fluid from radiator to radiator (bypassing the engine).

In addition I would also suggest that proper high temperature oil is used (I use  Castrol Edge Sport 10W60 or Motul Le Mans 20W60 or  Selenia Racing 10-W60) 

Important Condition : 
This certainly is not for everyone , but this low temperature fan switch and low temperature thermostat is definitely for those who on one hand want performance and engine protection on the other and suffer from engine tendency to get high coolant and oil temperature.  If you operate the car only on open road (with minimum city traffic jam exposure in the summer) and/or drive or it all year round you do not need to do any modifications at all. In fact such modification can do more damage than good. 

Tip : if you never thought you need an oil temperature gauge you probably do not need to do anything with your standard fan and switch and thermostat. 

Miro

I am using the 82/77 made by WAHLER

(make sure the sensors are not China made or no name /brandless as these are terribly unreliable and almost never open and close as they should! Take a reliable brand name product! WAHLER is what I would recommend!)      

Remember that keeping the engine/coolant/oil temperature at recommended 75 deg C engine running temperature is a complex issue matter, or actually I should say set of complex issues.  One is the issues cooling the coolant, another to cooling the oil and third to air pressure and engine bay temperature/airflow/vetting.  They are all interrelated but not necessarily in a very direct manner.

PM sent

Miro

PS Do not forget about the thermostat.  I assume you have reliable oil temp sensor and a good coolant temperature sensor both put in proper location.  

M

If you operate the car only on open road (with minimum city traffic jam exposure in the summer) and/or drive or it all year round you do not need to do any modifications at all. In fact such modification can do more damage than good. 

OK, now I agree. (I keep forgetting you guy's are racing these cars...)

Henk,

Sorry , we also sometimes forget most people just drive their cars for the sheer pleasure of driving. Sometimes I envy you guys because once you turn your car into a competition machine, no "boulevard driving" is possible. When I rally miss it I jump into my 124 spider( zero modifications) and cruise around my town and nearby villages. This is  a really nice feeling but  than one car cannot be both. Each of us should have at least two : a "cruiser" and a "racer" .

Miro     

but don't we need this lower switch for when were sitting traffic ,franticly looking at the temp gauge praying
 the fan would cut in earlyer  :(

Sorry guys, please allow me to still disagree  ;D  The radiator cooling fan is only really needed when the car is stationary. While the car is moving either "cruising" or racing then the air pushed through the radiator by the car's movement is doing the cooling and not the fan. High speed race cars do not have cooling fans in fact. The engine running temperature whether for race or road  is set by the water thermostat and not the cooling fan. If you want to increase the efficiency of the cooling fan then you'll need a bigger faster fan to move more air over the radiator and not simply start it spinning sooner. Miro, with your low temperature fan switch you must have at least a 74 degree  water thermostat. If you do and your engine is built for maximum thermodynamic efficiency at that temperature then fine. But there's no point in fitting a very low temperature fan switch without changing the water thermostat, which was my original point in this thread.

Re these fan switches, you should never rely on them as if and when they go wrong and dont cut the fan in its usually on the hottest day of the year and in the biggest traffic jam.  On my own sport I do have the usual automatic wax element switch but I also have a manual over ride switch fitted where the spare switch is on the dash and this has the added advantage that when in the height of the summer you drive into a traffic jam you flick on your manual switch and keep the engine at its normal running temperature

Yes David, i had one off them on couple of my 131 's a god send for peace of mind  8)

Guys,  

A manual override switch is a must on a 2.0 Fiat DOHC engine.  I have it on both 131 and 124.

Thotos:

Your argument makes perfect sense  and in principle I agree that you should not need to change the radiator fan switch and the thermostat , but... This assumes perfect air flow in engine bay allowing the hot air to be blown out from under the bonnet.  In fact under normal driving such flow is sufficient, except when the car stands in a traffic jam.

However the air flow under 131 bonnet is far from perfect. The high air pressure area is typically located just above the engine and towards the windscreen. The air there just flows around but mostly stays in place. Most of it is is removed not trough the air vents in the bonnet but near the lower wings area in the front.  Thus while what you say makes perfect sense in theory, but in performance driving practice it is a bit more complex.

I have studied this in detail and found this to be fairly complex issue of gas dispersion under forced air pressure in semi enclosed non-geometrical environment...

But to reiterate what is my experience : for normal daily driving a manual radiator fan switch is all one needs.

Miro  

PS : on my 131 I have a twin fan setup.

PS PS : for the low temperature thermostat I would recommend this :

http://131mirafiori.com/smf/index.php?topic=3567.0

Very expensive (146 Euro), but it is a straight fit and does not require any cooling system modifications  , excpt for low temperature fan switch.

 

fan switch and termostat from lada are a strahgt fit onto 131 and they're available from 68'c to 98'c

Djape ,

Could you provide on/of variations .   

Miro

what do you mean on/off variations?

i can get you a thermostat and/or fan switch of any sort.

for head mounted application a thermostat from yugo/zastava is a bolt on fit, also available from 68-92 (or 96?)

At what temperature does it go on and at what temp off ?

there's diferent startng temperatures. for example, it starts at 72 and turns off at 68, or on at 86/ off at 78 etc..

will post details when i check what's available at local stores

Djape, 

Any luck ?

Miro

sure, but i forgot to post answer  ::)

there's about a dozen diferent on/off temperatures available ranging from 68/76 to 98/104 and peretty much everything in between. prices also range from about 2,5e to 10e. experience has tought me to steer clear from cheapest ones. 5-10e range usually works flawlessly. many diferent makes available also.
interesting fact is that fan swithches for

FIAT - 125, 127, 128, 131, 132, argenta, ritmo, regata, panda
LANCIA - pretty much all models
VOLKSWAGEN - golf mk1 and mk2, polo mk1 and mk2, passat mk1 and mk2
AUDI - 80 mk1, mk2, mk3
ZASTAVA/YUGO - all models

are interchangable, with same thread, so they're straight fit and choice is wast.

also interesting is thermostat for lada models 2101...(all models in between).. 2107 which are interchangable with 131/132 lower radiator hose thermostat and is also available in "low temp" mode. in my lada is the one with 68-86 temp range, while "standard" one is 86-96. price is 12-15e range.

Djape,

Email sent

Miro

I read this topic with most interest. Here is my opinion as a mechanic and also as a 131 Abarth owner. For normal use the original set up is perfect. My Racing has the original stuff. But for racing you could consider a lower temperature thermostat. Because the engine runs higher revs it will produce more heat. Therefor it's better to have a thermostat that opens sooner. The thermo switch in the radiator should only be replaced when the engine reaches high temperatures fast.

In my Abarth i have 78 degrees thermostat and a switch on the dash for the fan. This means i have to check the gauge for reaching 80 degrees and turn it on manually. See picture of another group 4 dash.

that might be a hit or miss affair. i prefer a setup with fan switch doing it's job but with manual override switch.

there's also another solution which worked fine for me for years. i had a 132 diesel which was smashed before i bought it and original radiator was replaced with one from regata diesel. 132 was 2,5 liter and regata 1,9. radiator from regata was about 3 liters smaller capacity. in original 12 liter system. that makes a lot of diference. i was unable to find original radiator so i had to find another solution.
i used complete switch/thermostat setup from hausehold water heater. although it was made to work with 220v AC current it worked just fine with 12v DC, connected via relay. temperature probe was glued to the bottom of the radiator and i kept temperature adjustment switch also which was bolted under the hood. i also installed BIG fan from bmw 5 series. that system could be adjusted to kick in at range from 50'c to 100'c. i usually kept it at 80'c in the summer and 95 in the winter.
it is a strange solution but it worked fine and i kept it even when i was able to find original radiator after year 2000 when serbia finally got out of wars and sanctions...

Now this is a make do ingenuity !!!

Great solution to the problem based on what is available !!! ::) ::) ::) ::)

Miro