What is a "Super," "Sport," "Racing," "Mirafiori," for a 131

[pintopower]

Sorry for the Dumb questions, but I do not know what the difference between the "Super," "Sport," "Racing," "Mirafiori," "Super Mirafiori," etc for the 131. What I do know after reading the 131 History is that All 131's are mirafiori's. Its part of the name. But here in the US, the 131 stopped being the 131 in 1978. Then in 1979 untill fiat stopped importing them they were known as the Brava. So, I think the Mk 1 131 was never a Brava. All the Mk 1's have the side ways T tail lights and the regular glove box right? The Mk 2 had the rectangular tail lights and the cool glove box on the top of the dash with the 2 sliding panels. I do know that only the 1800 (pre 1978) and the 2000 (1979 on) were availible in the 131/Brava's to allow the cars to pass the US smog laws (you guys should see the engine bay of any 1979/80 california Fiat, they are a nightmare!!!! you cant even see the damn engine under all the smog lines and emission controls, ill send a pic).  So, can you guys shed some light on what makes what? I do know that fuel injection was standard in California in 1980, optional in the rest of the US, if that makes a difference. Cant wait to figure all this out and see what kind of 131/Brava i have! Thanks!

[kev131]

Gee - This is the kind of question that could be answered in 2/3 sentances or by using 1000 words - Maybe this is the time to write the second instalment of the 131 story!!

I'll give it a go from my perspective and maybe some of the more informed guys can add what I leave out. The answer is confined to European Fiat 131 versions so excludes the Turkish, and Spanish (& current Ethiopian) iterations.

There were 3 series of the 131 ('74, '78 & '81). All used the same body shape(s) although no 2 door series 3s were made. The estate version (5 door) is aka the Panorama.

The series 1 made do with one extra moniker namely Mirafiori which persisted until the end of the car's production run. There were 2 versions, basic and S. The Abarth version (c400 examples) was a limited run in 1976/7. A small number were made later with series 2 rear lights.







When the series 2 came along the range expanded initially to L/CL & Super versions (hence Supermirafiori). This followed a Fiat tradition of making standard and Special versions of their cars (127/128/124/125/etc). I learnt just recently that L & CL may stand for Lusso and Comfort Lusso.







A little while later (and to capitalise on the rallying success of the Abarth version) a 2 door Sport version was introduced known as the Mirafiori Sport / Racing depending on the market. This had a 1995 carb engine along with sporty trim and visually stood out from the rest of the range. Aside from the Abarth, this is without doubt the most desirable version now that the car has achieved classic status. Diesel versions were also introduced in series 2.

The confusion betwen "Sport" & "Racing" is quite common and a few theories have been put forward. The most common is that UK (& Irish) insurance companies would load a car car named "Racing", and that "Sport" was considered more tame and insurance friendly. There is no difference between the two other than badging. The general opinion is that all European market cars are called Racing although in my humble opinion it was only the French & Italian markets that adopted this name (Happy to be contradicted on this one).?



Series 3 consolidated the range back to 2 versions (CL & Super) again and 2 body styles - 4 & 5 doors. The Sport was dropped and replaced by a 2000 Supermirafiori (although in some people's eyes this was a poor substitute despite the loading of luxury items such as p/s, e/w, remote door mirrors and c/l.)





ENGINES

Engine sizes range from 1300 &1600 in series 1 (if you exclude the Abarth - 1995 cc 16v - Carb or FI).

Series 2 was 1300, 1600 to 2000 petrol and 2000 & 2500 diesel.

Series 3 was 1400, 1600 to 2000 petrol and 2000 & 2500 diesel.

There was neither a 1800 cc engine nor Fuel Injection in the European ranges. (Small exception is that FI was an option on the limited run Abarth model). Turbo charging was not available although very small numbers of a super-charged version in Series 2 Racing and Series 3 Super styles were made. These were called Volumetrico.



All Supermirafior/Sport/Racing/Abarth versions had Twin Cam engines.

REAR LIGHTS

The rear light configuration chronology is sideways T (Series 1), almost square (series 2) and finally rectangular (Series 3).

BODY STYLES

2 Door saloon (imaginatively described as a Coupe by some - Americans usually).

4 Door saloon

5 Door Estate/Wagon

2 Door Cabriolet (Ok... so thats a joke although I know of 2 conversions - One in pink by a member of Pink Floyd and the attached green one!)?



A pick up and Hearse have also been seen on the internet!?



A commercial van version was available called the Marengo.



SPECIAL EDITIONS

The forerunner to the production Abarth was called the Fiat 031 and had a Fiat 130 3.2 litre engine. There was also an 035 but I dont know much about it.



A limited run of Fiat 131 Sports was marketed in the German market - Called the Walter Rohrl after their world championship winning rally driver.



There was a special version of the series 3 Panorama called the Maratea.



YOUR CAR

Your car does not seem to fit any of the Eurpoean range make up - It has the desirable 2 door body with series 2 rear lights (which in Europe could have been L/CL or Sport/Racing - All Supers were either 4 or 5 door versions). Like you say, it's likely to be a Fiat 131 Brava (or Super Brava?)...although the registration papers should give some guidance.

Here are some images of the US Brava brochure which may be of use to you.











Having re-read your original question I can see that I've probably over-complicated the answer but it gives a good overview of the car's history which could be the basis for finishing an outstanding job on the website...that of recounting the 131 story.

Lastly, why does the car have 2 names - 131 and Mirafiori - Cos it's such a great car one wouldn't do....!?

[pintopower]

kev131, I am a member www.FordPinto.com and President and co-Founder of the Southern California Ford Pinto Owners Assoc. (In affiliation with www.FordPinto.com). In the Pinto world, there is a man by the handle known as Pintony. He is the guy that if you ask a question, you get an ANSWER. Not just a boring simple answer. A REAL answer. One that you enjoy reading and hearing about. An answer that you Copy and place on your iPod for reference in case some one at the next fiat run asks "Whats a Super Mirafiori?" Kev, your the man I have to thank when I explain it to them and look like I know everything. I think your reply should be added to the "About the 131." So I must say, Thank you. I am very suprised that the 1800 was not availible in Europe. That was the most popular version of the Lampredi engine in the U.S.. Oh by the way, I know its a bad photo, but my car is actually a 4 door. I wanted the 2 door, but I must say, those 2 extra doors make hauling friends about much easier....

[simon131]

7 and a half out of 10 Kev - Must try harder!

I don't know why you've been waiting for me to prepare the second instalment of the 131 History when you (nearly) know it all anyway!!

A couple of points of clarification if I may

'mirafiori' should always be written with a small/lower case 'm'. Not certain why - but it always appears to be by FIAT themselves.

The Series 1 estate/wagon was known as the Familiare and not the Panorama as Series 2 and 3 estates were known - hence FIATs model reference for the estate being '131 AF'.

I'm surprised that you have only just learnt what L and CL stand for!

In fact the Series 3 WAS made as a 2 door in Italy for the European market. I shall scan a picture and post it up as soon as I can. It was certainly made in CL form, possibly even Super, but I'll check.

The Racing and mirafiori Sport models, as you say, were identical. They used exactly the same engine that was used in the then current European spec 2000TC 132 - it even produced the same horse power (115) and shared the same gearbox ratios although the Sport has an Abarth remote shifter.

The Series 3 2000TC saloons were produced on the same line as the outgoing Series 2 Sport, and as such replaced it in mid to late 1981. It has been a bone of contention for years among 131 Sport owners, as many believe that their cars were produced upto the end of 1982 at least. They may well have been registered late '82, but as with Lancia and the Delta, FIAT produced many shells and stock piled them OUTSIDE in the northern Italian weather, before completing and shipping them for sale.

I have a copy of the original 131 Sport press pack at home that actually states that the reason the car is called Sport and not Racing 'for right hand drive markets' is to placate the UK Insurance industry!

There was also a difference in the engines used in the Euro spec cars for the lower range models.

Series 1 1300 and 1600 were all overhead valve, push rod engines (basic and Special trim) with the exception of the Abarth, which was a bespoke 2-litre 16-valve Twin Cam unit.

Series 2 1300 (L and CL) and 1600 (CL) were pushrod engines, with a 1600 Twin Cam in the Supermirafiori and 2000 Twin Cam in the Sport/Racing

Series 3 1400 (CL) and 1600 (CL) were overhead cam engines, similar to that used in the Strada and Regata. There were also 1400, 1600 and 2000 Twin Cam engines.

In general, the North American (Canada and US) spec cars were very different from their European counterparts. To understand why only 1800 and 2000 Twin Cam units were used just take a good look at the torque and horse power outputs! US regulations meant cleaner emissions which only the TCs could achieve with 'air' and later 'fuel injection'.

[kev131]

7.5 out of ten from SR? - That is praise from Ceaser!!!?

Ya saw a brochure recently stating Lusso and Comfort Lusson - You've got to hand it to the Italians in those days calling the most spartanly equipped model a word that is supposed to conjure up impressions of luxury!!

Now about my marks for you - I cant give you 10 out 10. Even though your inaccuracy is about a 132 rather than a 131, as it appears on a 131 website I am going to have to mark you down. Sorry. The 132 with the 1995cc engine produced 112bhp according to Fiat themselves, I can't remember why the 131 Sport produces more - Different cams maybe..?

A series 3 in a 2 door??? This I gotta see cos I cant ever remember having seen one. I'm going reserve your points award until I see the evidence I'm afraid.

Pintopower - many thanks for your kind words but Simon Ryle is the biggest 131 Authority on the planet that I have come across - My response was always going to be better though, he cant post pictures on the website and a picture is worth a 1000 words....

I must have misunderstood which was your car - I thought it was the white car that you have provided a shot of from behind.?

[simon131]

A mistake about a 132 engine doesn't count does it

I'll take your word for it Kev. I know that the carbs for 2000 TC were Weber 34 ADF in the UK, but I think that the 131 Sport had different jets. It certainly gave the car greater responsiveness. I once put a Sport carb on a 2000TC Super (series 3) and the car flew.? Much quicker than with the standard set-up carb.

I've heard a rumour that the 131 Sport had 'hotter' cams than the 132 and 131 2000 Super - but I don't know for certain. I believe they had different dwell which meant that the valves are open for longer.

Who's this Ceaser bloke?? and what did he stop doing?? (I thought it was Caesar(?) )

[Thotos]

They used exactly the same engine that was used in the then current European spec 2000TC 132 - it even produced the same horse power (115)

No Simon, I have to agree with Kevin here! The 132 engine (as fitted to the later 2 litre Supers) had 112bhp developed at 5600rpm while the Sport had 115bhp developed at 5800rpm. The difference was achieved by using different camshafts and different carburettor (or different jets in the same carburettor?). While the almost insignificant 3bhp difference would imply that the two engines were almost identical, they are very different in the way they produce their power and the way they drive with the Sport/Racing engine feeling much stronger and revving more freely while the 132 or Supermirafiori engine feels a lot more refined.

And while I have my anorak on, I would add that a major difference between the Series 1 and Series 2 cars was the interior. While Series 1 cars were fully designed in-house by Fiat, when it came to the Series 2 cars Fiat decided they wanted the 131 to go up-market (hence the change in name to L and CL emphasising the 'Luxury' of the cars) so they employed the services of Rodolfo Bonetto to design the interior of the cars and it was Rodolfo who came up with the idea of the twin glove-box with sliding doors on the top of the dashboard.

Rodolfo Bonetto was a freelance designer who worked a lot with Fiat, as well as Veglia Borletti, the instrument makers, and Autovox and Voxson. He also later styled the FIRE engine for Fiat  but his best known automotive work is his dashboards and he is responsible for a lot of Fiat and later Lancia dashboards like the original Y10 dashboard, the Regata dash, the Croma dash, and the dash form the original Ritmo/Strada Super.

Anorak off now and I better get back to work....

[simon131]

Theo said "The difference was achieved by using different camshafts and different carburettor (or different jets in the same carburettor?)."

I thought that's what I said If it wasn't then it's certainly what I'm implying

I wasn't going to mention Rodolfo Bonetto 'cos I thought we were being generic

If we're talking about him perhaps we should also be talking about Lampredi and Bertone

[131akafa]

Hello everyone,

concerning 2door 3rd series:
just a quick shot from my manual - but it should be evidence enough 

the manual mentions 4D CL and Super as well as Estate, 2D only CL

regards,
Ren

[kev131]

Hey this is a fun topic - I certainly hadn't heard of the designer interior on series 2 and I suppose that's the only way such an ergonomic disaster of that glove box could have been passed - Bit like emperors clothes - No-one had the guts to point out that it was a retrograde step just because it had a fancy dan designer name! ?

I'm gonna prove that my anorak is just as big as yours now with the statement that the Sport engine produces different BHP to the series 3 Super 2000 - The latter car produces 113bhp according to Fiat. Largely academic I suppose. The Fiat quoted top speeds for each car were 170/175/180 km/h for 132/Super/Sport.

Hi Rene - Thanks for that image - Although it wouldn't be the first misprint I've seen on Fiat documents - I'd still like to see the picture of the car!  if only for my own education!

[simon131]

If the two door series 3 is a misprint - it was also misprinted in the English version too!

Ok - what did both the Series 3 131 2000TC Supermirafiori and 132 2000 have in common, that was not common to the 131 Sport/Racing?

.....and it took power directly from the engine which would have reduced the engine output! (and I was told ages ago by a then current FIAT GB technical guy that it would have dropped the output of the engine by '2 or 3 bhp'!).

You've stirred up a hornets nest with the engine output topic Kev, so why not add to it with the top speed argument too

It's a well known and documented fact that the 131 is actually faster in fourth gear than it was in fifth! So, does FIAT state which gear the car was tested in?

I think it was Motor Magazine who tested the 1978 1600TC (Series 2) Supermirafiori, and after four or five attempts in fifth found that the car was unable to get to within about 10 mph of FIAT's quoted top speed. When they contacted FIAT they were told that fifth gear was an overdrive and to try the test again in fourth. They did, and they acheived the quoted top speed, from their own measuring equipment rather than the cars (very optimistic!) speedo, but stated that "the rev counter was so far in the red as to be academic"!

I would also say that top speed is in no way a refection of the characteristic of an engine's/car's performance. Weight, aerodymanics, environmental temperature and pressure, gearbox and axle ratios also play a part. The 132 2000 was heavier than the 131 Super 2000 which was heavier than the 131 Sport. Also the Sport only has two doors - it's far more likely to be quicker than a four door saloon!

As for anorak Kev - are you at work getting the figures from memory? If so, you truly deserve to be the owner of the 131 Fact Anorak!!! Here, I'll take it off!!

[Thotos]

I'm gonna prove that my anorak is just as big as yours now with the statement that the Sport engine produces different BHP to the series 3 Super 2000

But nobody claimed that it did so your anorak sizing proof doesn't stand!

[mirafioriman]

Wow, there is some detailed information! For what it's worth, the reasons I like the Mk2 Supers over the other versions are: a) The glovebox! b) The back lights. c) The side trims and d) The velour interior (early cars appear to have more, so are better). OK, I know that these features are shared with the Sport! While we are on the subject of variants, can anyone post up some pics of Mk2 Supermirafiori estate cars?

[curt]

Who's this Ceaser bloke?? and what did he stop doing?? (I thought it was Caesar(?) )

He's the one who made the salad dressing 

Now Now chaps - i do enjoy the friendly anorak rivalry 
Has anybody driven a 131 with the 1400 twin cam engine 
I just wondered how it performed .
And why was the 1800 twin never put into a uk 131??
My old 132 ES used to fly with the 18 twin -but did eat differentials for a living
a common problem as the 2 litre berlini my mate had suffered the same problem,
I know its 132s but still interesting to me - did the belini have an uprated 2 litre twin in it

keep throwing the 'I know more than you do's ' Its fabulous reading material 

[kev131]

Been too busy at work today to get on line and respond again...

It's a scientifically proven fact that I know less than 10% of what Simon and Theo know about Fiats and 131s - This number is gleaned from numerous converstaions where I humbly listen to or read their latest stream of valuable information. Every now and again I find a slight discrepancy and like a starving hawk who hasn't seen food for weeks and lives miles from MacDonalds, I pounce on the merest opportunity to display my meagre knowledge!?

Hence my extraordinarily rude observation about Simon's claimed power output of a 132 2.0 and I suspect Theo's implication that the 131 Super had the same engine.

"The 132 engine (as fitted to the later 2 litre Supers)"

Fiat claim a different power output of 113 compared with 112 so it would indicate some difference although it could be rounding - Down in the case of the 132 and up in the case of the 131. I sense though that there will be a technical response in the face of which I will be powerless to resist - Let's see.?

Simon - Thank you for crediting me with zero nouse on your top speed discourse. Of course, lots of different factors come into play here - I was simply pointing out that according to Fiat (no doubt they used the optimum gear to test the claim with) the relativity of the top speeds corresponded with the power outputs - Of course this proved nothing but it gave me the opportunity to show off my tiny knowledge again!!

Glad everyone else is enjoying the debate and pretend rivalry - Every now and again a topic can call much latent forum energy to the surface.. so credit to Pintopower!? Yeeeaaaa!

Si - You asked what do the 132/131 Super have that the Sport does not. 4 doors for one but I guess you are referring to Power Steering? Not sure what point you were making as Theo seems to have pointed out the mechanical reason in the engine....Can you clarify?

Oh yes - not sure if the questions abour Caeser are tongue in cheek but the full phrase is :

"Praise from Caeser is praise indeed" by which I meant 7.5 out of 10 from Caeser (Si) is praise worth having - Only cos he knows so bloody much about 131s!