What is a "Super," "Sport," "Racing," "Mirafiori," for a 131

[Andy c]

Hello all you 131 nutters, never have I been entertained so much by one question, one thing you must all do is please stop calling yourselves anoraks, for all of you have super seeded that you have all become Trench coats, how can one question warrant so much replying, and you men say that us women can talk, or in this case write, its a good job were not back at Killarney or we would be up all night debating, ( well you all would), ok guys Iwill stop taking the bung of you and just remind you all that you are all welcome down on the 1st/2nd September with your precious 131's at our place, lunch will be provided, thank you Simon and Theo for your postive replys, if any of you need an overnight stay should you want to come and will be travelling a fair distance let us know.

Your much entertained 131 widow

Anita xx
 

[Thotos]

"The 132 engine (as fitted to the later 2 litre Supers)"

Now I see how I caused the confusion! By later 2 litre Supers I meant the Series 2 Supers that superceded the 1600 Supers. I wasn't refering to Series 3 cars as I know little about those!

[mirafioriman]

Surely all 2 litre Supers were Mk 3's? On the point of power etc, the power steering on a Mk 3 Supermirafiori would probably rob the 2-3 BHP, hence the difference in the power figures between the 132, Sport and 132 Supermirafiori 2 litre.

[kev131]

Hi Theo - "Series 2 Supers that superceded the 1600 Supers?" ?

Supers began at Series 2. They had 1300TC , 1600TC (& 2500D) engines - No changes during the production cycle of series 2 as far as I am aware.

Series 3 Supers had 1400TC, 1600TC, 2000TC (&2500D)engines - Again no changes as far as I can remember.

Anyway what this does all mean is that it's time to write chapter 2 which I think I''ll finally have a go at and circulate for corrections and additions.

Anita - Did you really read all of this topic? If you did you are a bigger fan that you are letting on! ?

[theredx19]

just to add some technical info (the Facts) the difference is mainly in the head of a sport and a super, cam duration was longer in a sport and also valve guides are 1mm fatter for heat disapation due to higher stress on the engine. But as regards the sport-racing debate why were so many other models sold on the continent as sport models and racing was only used for the 131 : )

[kev131]

Hi Redx - Do you mean so many other "FIAT" models were sold as Sport? By that you mean 127, 850, 124, 128 - Cant think of any others off hand....

Maybe "Racing" was used for the 131 because it had been so successful in the world of Racing (ie rallying). The other sporty Fiat versions did not have the same heritage.

Good question though - hadn't considered that angle before. 

[Thotos]

Surely all 2 litre Supers were Mk 3's?

Hi Theo - "Series 2 Supers that superceded the 1600 Supers?" 

Yes, I admit my mistake here and you are of course both right! I've been corrected on this before by Simon but my Anorak must have fallen off or my senility has taken over!

Series 3 Supers had 1400TC, 1600TC, 2000TC (&2500D)engines - Again no changes as far as I can remember.

Now with anorak firmly back on I should mention that there was another Series 2 and Series 3 variant which is the 2 litre (1995cc) diesel producing 60bhp at 4400rpm as opposed to the 2.5 litre (2445cc) which produced 72bhp at 4200rpm.

[pintopower]

Damn, leave it to the Americans to start a war! Sorry I brought this up!! Ha!! Ok, here are a few more shots of my 131/Brava. I am still confused. So, guys, let me get this straight...since my car has the 2000 motor in it, it would be known as a 4 door Racing/Sport? Kev, I know you mentioned that it would be a Super, but then later I read that the supers dont have 2000 motors right? OR, its it just a detuned, 80 HP, automatic, US-Spec, Smog controlled Brava, and nothing more? 
I have added pictures of the motor. The carb is off getting rebuilt. I thought you all would like to laugh at the crap that is poorly attached to my motor. On a plus side, it is getting de-smogged soon. Dont ask how....
Kev131, The registration papers in California dont say anything. All it calls the car is a Fiat 4door Sedan.

[pintopower]

Check out that SWEET smog line bank!! You should see all the vacuum ports on the carb. It looks like a spider!

[pintopower]

Here is what the back of the car says. I would rather call it what you guys get to! Sport, Racing, mirafiori, Super, its all so much better than

FIAT 2 Litre (and every american car guy mentions that Litre is not spelled correctly, I mean come on, I know we spell it Liter, but the world does not exist between the Pacific ocean and the Atlantic) BRAVA

[pintopower]

Oh, and do any Euro models have this Grille?

[simon131]

Right, let's start at the beginning

My comments regarding Ceaser and Caesar Kev relates only to the way in which you mis-spelt it 'Ceaser - someone who ceases something?'

Pintopower - to go some way to answer your question. As I said before the US spec cars were VERY different to anything we had in Europe in terms of trim, name and engine capacity. Your car is not a Sport or Racing - it is just a FIAT 2-litre Brava.

Coupled to the car's age, the word Brava on it's own defines the trim (although there may have been options - velour or tartan) and engine capacity on US cars, which is almost identical in your car to the Series 2 1600TC Supermirafiori European cars. So, a 1979 Brava has to be a 2-litre (and all 2-litre FIAT engines of this period were Twin Cam, with or without anti-smog).

A name is just a name. In FIAT terms check out the chassis number and FIAT model type. It will either be something like ZFA131***** or 131A****. This is enough to confirm that the Brava is a true 131 and continues the lineage.

The closest thing (although by no means identical) to your car in European terms would be a Series 2 Supermirafiori that had the original factory 1600TC replaced with a 2000TC (along with a million trim changes and rectangular headlights). For European markets the series 2 Super was not fitted with a 2000TC, only a 1600TC, but as I have said - US cars were VERY different to their European counterparts - and in short, there is no direct European equivalent.

What's worth bearing in mind here is that the 2000TC US spec (strangled) engine produced 80bhp, whilst the European 1600TC pushed out 96bhp! Hence, no need for a bigger, and therefore less economical engine in Europe. Besides, petrol/gasoline is far cheaper in the US so FIAT didn't need to worry so much about good mpg figures.

The grille on your car appears to be identical to that used on the Series 3 2500 diesel Super models in Europe.

Hope this helps.

[curt]

Im still enjoying the war 
But as for the 1400 twin - has anyone driven one 

[simon131]

Hi Curt,

Sorry mate, no, I haven't driven a 1400TC although they were popular in mainland Europe. I've seen plenty in France and Germany, but never driven one.

I don't know whether anyone else has though

[krishtiano]

Wow..i certainly got some really useful information in this little 'war' of you guys here..:p