Timed on #1 or #4 cyl?

[Thotos]

You need about 1mm clearance between the throwout bearing and the pressure plate diaphragm spring.

I was going to say that but Mick beat me to it  You just need a slight clearance there to stop the bearing rubbing on the fingers and wearing them.

Are the spacers at the bulkhead rubber exhaust hanger rings? That's not good if that's the case. If you need a spacer there use something solid such as a big nut.

The photos are very good but I'm somewhat confused (that happens easily and often  ) as to what's what 

The system should work since the gearbox, cable and pedal box are all from a 131. Adjust the inner cable at the actuator arm to give you the correct actuator arm position. If you are looking at the release bearing to pressure plate gap, set it so the bearing just clears the fingers. Then adjust the outer cable at the bulkhead to get the correct pedal height. The more thread you see in the engine compartment, the higher the pedal will be. If you run out of thread, then you'll need to add a spacer, as you seem to have done, but make it a solid spacer.

Your actuator arm return spring looks too hefty to me. I think you need a spring with less tension than that.

[keith m 131]

Good afternoon All,

That is not a spacer on the bulkhead, the metal tube as part of the pedal box slides through the bulkhead and then a metal and rubber sleeve slides in to that and then the clutch cable slides into that. The rubber ring you see is only to conceal the joint cosmetically.

The clutch is only 1500 miles old, I bought a complete new clutch and had the pressure plate balanced to the crank as part of the engine balance.

This morning I set the clutch up ( used a large nut ) so it allows me to select all gears smoothly. But to achieve that the release bearing is touching the pressure plate fingers. In this position the cable is too tight to allow me to pull the actuator backwards, but if the the pedal is pulled up as high as it will go ( hitting the dash ) then I can pull the actuator arm backwards and the bearing clears the pressure plate by approx 3mm. I have tried using the bulkhead adjustor to pull the pedal up high but that puts the cable under more tension and the actuator arm cant be pulled backwards. No matter what I try I cannot get the clutch to work smoothly without the bearing being in contact with the pressure plate.  

I tried it with the actuator spring fitted and tried it without the spring and it made no difference to the pedal heigth or the position of the bearing in relation to the pressure plate.

I started the engine and the internal part/centre piece of the bearing is spinning and because it is hitting the pressure plate the actuator arm is vibrating quite a bit. ( thats answered another question for me )

I have attached another group of three photos showing the latest position of the pedal, bulkhead adjustor and the actuator arm. These are the positions required to be able to select gears smoothly but the bearing hits the pressure plate. As requested by mick the I have taken 2 photo's ( 3 and 4 ) which show the position of the actuator arm with clutch engaged and the 4th photo shows the position of the arm with the clutch pedal to the floor. It doesnt look like a lot of travel but with this minimal amount of movement the clutch works fine. Is this correct or what should it be?

Photo 5 is taken with the pedal pulled up high and the arm pulled backwards. You can just see that the bearing is approx 3mm clear, you can also see that the fingers are flat.

Based on this post do you think the problem is to do with the lentgh of the inner cable, if not can someone please tell me where I can get some vallum... cos now I am really frustrated and confused.

Keith  

[keith m 131]

post continued

[Thotos]

I don't think it's a cable length problem and certainly don't think the inner cable is too short. If you pull the inner cable so you can engage it is the actuator arm, the pedal should go up high towards the dashboard and the cable should reach without you having to pull the arm forward and engage the clutch just to connect the cable. If that's not happening, then maybe the cable movement is restricted? You said the cable runs under the sump. Do you have any sharp bends in the cable that might restrict the movement of the inner cable? Where are you based Keith? I'm getting so puzzled about this I'd like to have a look.

[keith m 131]

Hi Theo,

From the top down the cable bends to go down next to the alternator, then turns under the sump and then turns to locate in the bell housing. I have the bends with as much radius as possible but that may not be enough. Maybe I need a longer cable. I will upload photos showing how the cable is routed in a few minutes, maybe that will help.

I live near Spalding in Lincolnshire.

keith

[keith m 131]

5 photos of cable route

[keith m 131]

contd

[Thotos]

That looks fine to me.....

[keith m 131]

Theo,

If I put a block of wood under the pedal a set it slightly higher that the brake pedal and get under the car I can just manage to get the cable through the arm and get the lock nut on, Then I remove the block and the pedal drops approx half the distance to the floor. In this position the bearing is almost touching the pressure plate and I cannpot select any gears. So I need to adjust the cable at the bulk head to to select gears and by the time I have done this the bearing is in contact with the pressure plate.

If we cant sort this then maybe I will come down to see you. I used to live in Wembley and actually bought my 131 in Enfield in 1996, was it from you the reg was BOY580Y


keith

[Thotos]

Maybe you've got the wrong pedal return spring? The pedal should not drop to half way down to the floor unless the pedal return spring is too strong    Try removing the pedal return spring and see what happens.

BOY580Y was never mine and I don't know the car. In fact I've only sold one 131 (my 1600CL) and that went to Ireland.

[keith m 131]

Its the original spring but I will try it without it.

Is your cable routed in a more gradual way. I am going out now to undo the cable at the gearbox and see how much resistance I get, and see how difficult it is to pull the pedal up high with and without the pedal return spring.

I really dont know what to be thinking anymore , we have looked at so many things

keith

[mirafioriman]

I may be wrong here but if the pedal can be lifted slightly, releasing the bearing from the fingers then surely you have free play. It sounds like when the clutch cable is correctly adjusted the bearing is just resting on the fingers which shouldn't cause any problems. A relatively large amount of force has to be applied to the fingers by the bearing to disengage the clutch and cause slip. The bearing simply resting on the fingers won't do it.

If the clutch is slipping at high speeds then the speed would stay the same but the revs would rise. Does this actually happen?

[keith m 131]

Theo,

I think you have cracked it.

I removed the cable from the actuator arm, and tried to pull the cable through with the pedal return spring in place, I could only manage to pull approx 5mm of cable through. I removed the pedal spring and could pull approx 40mm of cable through.
I replaced the cable to the actuator arm and could fit the lock nut easily and still pull the arm backwards so the bearing is approx 5mm clear of the pressure plate. The pedal is now pulled up to the underside of the dash. In this position the actuator arm and bearing moves back towards the pressure plate but I can easily pull it backwards, so
I have fitted the actuator return spring to hold the bearing clear.

I need to find a return spring with lesser tension to pull the pedal back down a bit. I will also remove the additional large nut that I fitted to the bulkhead adjustor and play around with the adjustment, and see what I can achieve now.  I started the engine, there is a quite a bit of slop in the pedal but I could select the gears smoothly but because of the clutch movement the arm is creeping forward again but it is easy to pull the arm backwards again with my hand. So when I play with the adjustment hopefully I can balance the set up with springs etc. to stop this happening.

I cant tell you how pleased I am now, but I wont count my chickens yet. The strength of the pedal spring was obviously suited to the 131 but combined with the bends in the cable it was too much for my set up, who would have thought of it. well Theo would thats who.

I have things to do on saturday and sunday so wont be able to try anything until monday, so I will report back then.

Keith

[keith m 131]

Mirafioriman,

With regards to the speed thats exactly whats happening, same speed but higher revs.

The bearing was extremely tight against the fingers so it was causing slipping.

But my last post explains the latest

Keith

[Thotos]

Is your cable routed in a more gradual way.

Yes, as I've said before, the clutch cable goes round the front on the engine. As far as I know, that's how the clutch cable is routed for all RHD 131s. I think you must have a cable for a LHD which is why it's so short. But I don't think that's your problem.

There must be something very wrong if the clutch pedal return spring is able to even partly engage the clutch. Maybe the clutch pressure plate is faulty? But if the pedal seems to behave as expected without the spring, I wouldn't bother fitting a weaker spring, just set the clutch and pedal to the correct positions without the pedal spring and drive the car to see if it works fine without the clutch slipping.