Abarth or Not ???...

[mick131]

Apologies if this has been seen before? , but there's something strange about this car....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZGrb08q7mo&feature=related

[Thotos]

Series 3 rear panel and lights in an Abarth? There's some debate about having factory Abarths with the series 2 rear panel and lights but certainly not series 3 so I'd say a replica. I can't tell for sure from that if there's a slight camber on the rear wheels but I think there is so probably has independent rear suspension. Then again we all know that might have come from a BMW... 

[mick131]

There's some debate about having factory Abarths with the series 2 rear panel and lights but certainly not series 3 so I'd say a replica.

I would have thought it was a replica too, but why replace the rear panel to accomodate Series 3 lights? . Especially as the alloys seem "period" (seem to remember Mr Volta's Gp 4 car being fitted with the same ).There does also appear to be a little neg camber at the rear. The BMW thing maybe catching on  .

Dug this out of my old scrapbook. From memory it's of a 1980 Monte Carlo entry...

[Thotos]

I believe it was Simon that told me once that there were no factory Abarths built using Series 2 bodyshells but some of the original Series 1 works Abarths had their rear panels replaced with series 2 panels and lights to more closely match the cars that Fiat dealers were trying to sell in their showrooms. Makes sense I suppose and when Simon talks to me about 131s I tend to listen and believe everything. 

[mick131]

Changing the rear panel / lights does make sense.

Just wonder if the rear panel on the red car above was rotten and just replaced with whatever was at hand  .

[miro-1980]

Changing the rear panel / lights does make sense.

Just wonder if the rear panel on the red car above was rotten and just replaced with whatever was at hand .

Changed rear pannel !! Makes sense. If it was a 1980 Monte Calro entry - could this be Wather Rohrl ? 
   
Note the unusual shape of digit "1" on th door ! Exactly the same .....

( Replica? ) 

[gerafiori]

any picyures of the paint scheme on the car in the background
looking for something different for my replica
gerry

[miro-1980]

Did a bit more research into this. My source says the series 2 bodyshell with square rear lights were used since July 1978 !   When did the series two start production. Is this possible ?

Miro

[simon131]

Hi Guys,

I think it's about time I joined this debate.

Miro, I would have agreed with your research findings 100% up until the time I purchased my Abarth, when I found further information that threw it into doubt.

I had always assumed that when the 131 was revised in 1978 new two door shells were used to make the competition Abarth cars. But this appears not to be the case. Here is what I know to be true at the moment - although much deeper digging might prove this to be incorrect too!

A guy in Australia (whose father is lucky enough to own a Stradale and a genuine Group 4) has been researching the chassis numbers of ALL the 131 Abarth's ever known (both Stradale and Group 4 racers) and found them to sit between numbers 00203*** and 00204*** (all 1976 series 1 shells) regardless of whether the car had series 1 or series 2 rear lights.?

Then there is Mick Wood's famous white Group 4, which I had the pleasure to 'climb all over' before he sold it to a rally driver in Finland, and whilst it was always known to have only series 2 rear lights, it has a series 1 chassis number which fits the number sequence above (incidentally so does my own Stradale).

I was told a very long time ago that all 'genuine' 131 Abarths, whether Stradale, Group 4 or outwardly series 1 or 2 were all produced from the same 400 or so original shells. This would also answer the often raised question - 'why was the Abarth Stradale never available as a series 2 when there were obviously series 2 cars being used in competition?' The answer is that there were no 'new' shells to sell as FIAT's competition boys were simply re-'rear panelling' the series 1 Group 4 cars that had already been prepared for racing.

This arguement also holds true when you consider that later in the 131's competition life it was known that FIAT were going to be replaced by Lancia in the rallying arena, so FIAT would not have wanted to spend a fortune on development. The only real thing to change on the later cars was the engine set up (fuel injection in place of carbs, etc.) which were easily swapped over, so why 're-invent the wheel' and incur further considerable cost by building up new cars from scratch.

[miro-1980]

Simon, Thanks a lot for your input.

                I TOTALLY DISGREE ....
               
                 (just kidding; )



What I expected is just patching up rally dents using whatever parts were available. The real rally cxars of the 70's and 80's were not for looks but for perfrmance. When i speak to some of my alder fiends who have rallied in this period they have interesting comment on all of our replicas.  "Our cars never had such carefull paint jobs , has scratcjhes , and dents, and really looked very raw inside. The cirrent raplicas look like they are museum pieces not real rally cars". It is a good point !
 
I was very surprised to have read that they used series 2 bodyshels. And whan this question was posted (Abarth or not ?) and I saw the Walther Wohrl on a series 2 it looked as a hard proof . Now with your explanation this all falls into place and makes parfect sense.

Thanks again for very interesting post !

By the way this is only to prove that one should not believe everything one sees , and that one needs but look for real story behind the surface.   

M     

 

[simon131]

The other thing I was going to say about Mick Wood's outwardly series 2 looking Abarth Group 4 is that it's actually registered as being a 1976 car (NPO ***R) despite the fact that for all the world it looks like the later post-1978 model.

Another thing to further cloud the issue is that Abarth used the same registration numbers on a number of different shells/chassis numbers - usually where a car was damaged beyond repair.

I too am always surprised at just how 'raw' genuine Group 4 (and other) rally cars look, but it helps me personally as my Abarth is most certainly not a pristine, show room example It gets used too much in all weathers to be that good.

Thanks for raising the question tho Miro, as answering it has really got my 131 and Abarth juices flowing again today

I'm off to watch England get beaten by the Italians in the Six Nations Rugby now, so catch you later.

[miro-1980]

RE : " 131 and Abarth juices flowing again ..."

Thanks for the exchange. It made my 124 spider 131 Abarth juices flow again, too.

I went to the storage place where I keep my fiats for the winter and fired them up. 124 spider fired off with the first turn of the key, despite battery being low. No wonder - fuel injected 2.0 with electric fuel pump.

With 131 it took few turns of a key to fill the carbs with fuel (glad the battery was still holding). It also started nicely considering that 1 plug is fouled  (did not have the time to fix the problem with the carb adjustment after my last rally in 2008 season.)

Anyway,  they do look good ! Can?t wait to put them back in my garage in April and !!!)   

I am building a new engine for 131 hoping to get some 180 HP and still collecting /building parts for original abarth diff / suspenssion.

124 will get a patch in a new paint job (a spot painter missed turned into a rustspot, fix on two leaks (one from the oil pan seal and one from a broken copper seal under the oil pressure sensor. I may also install a targa hardtop on the spider for unusual looks.


Miro

PS: Re: pristine look. Mine actually do look as if they left factory yesterday. Not that I do not like it but it looks like it is time for a real driving. I want to go to Monte Carlo Classic. Maybe I can do it next year. There is a group of guys going every year from Warsaw This years team included Polski Fiat 125p, Lancia Fulvia and Alfa Romeo GTV.

I also am seriously looking at Austrian Ice trophy...  Let us have some real fun!!!

Look at this taken just before a symbolic start from Warsaw ...

 Let's have some real fun!!!

   

Look at this ...

[simon131]

Thanks for your reply Steve.  It's nice to know that I wasn't just imagining it.

[miro-1980]

Steve,

It there any chance  your Dad would be kind enough and share the list (i.e. publish it on this foum) ?

Miro

PS there apprears to be two place's to look for detailed fiat 124/125/131 info. One is "www.131miratiori.com" and the other is the one you are  "Uncle Abarth": www.turbo124.com   
 

M