Everlasting discussion point

[mirafiori76]

Here's a topic about something that will always be a discussion point. Keep a 2 door or make it an Abarth replica. The reason i'm starting this is because recently a new member from South Africa registered. No offence and a warm welcome. But he opened his topic with the words he bought himself a steel body 2-door saloon. I was very hopefull. Then the pictures followed... Again, an Abarth replica attempt.
When i started working on my first replica, back in 1988, i thought i had something different. Special perhaps. It was my Oliofiat replica, made of a 1600 L. Then, in 1991, i bought a Racing that already had the bodypanels but was a tuned Racing. I turned it into an Alitalia replica. Took the whole interior out and changed it into the spartan one. Again i had something that was very different from everybody else here in Holland.
I sold the Alitalia to buy me a 16 V head for my REAL Abarth. Sold the body of the Oliofiat to Walezy to pay for a year use of a garage.
Sure, i miss both cars, but after being here on this forum for over 2 years now, i can't say my cars would have been very special anymore.

Nowadays every 2 door 131 is slaughtered to be converted in a spin-off. Racings/Sports are rare and 2 door L or CL saloons are even more hard to find.
Again, i don't want to offend anybody working on his replica. I absolutely understand why one would like to have himself a replica of the 3 times world rally champion. Sure, i once wanted the same. But what i really would like to see is somebody who is restoring him (or her)self a standard 2 door car.

Next to my Group 4 Abarth i have this 1600 Cl (not standard, but it's only a 4-door 1600CL  and there are lots of them still out there) and my Walter Rohrl Racing. This last is not completely standard anymore, but it's still a Racing and it will always be a Racing.

Anyway, everybody good luck converting, but you won't get my sympathy. Even though the car looks great. Sorry. I just needed to get this off my mind. 

[daverwd]

My view on this is that if you have always wanted a 131 abarth but it is out of your reach you will do the next best thing & that is make a replica.. your quite a lucky man as i see you have a genuine car & this allows you to be more sympathic to the lesser 2 door 131s believing they should remain as standard cars, but if you are like me & dont have a real 131 abarth the next best option is to make a replica.. i assume most of the guy's converting their  2 door shells to replicas are in the same boat as me..
Unfortunately i let 2 genuine stradle road cars slip by me one in  1990 for ?12,500 was for sale by Dunan Robertson in england & a second car around 2003 for ?18500 in belgium..(stupid stupid me )
My first memories of a rally car was the 131 abarth 'olio fiat' cars, to me they were & still are one of the most impressive looking rally cars of all times.
I absolutely see your view on not turning 2 door shells into abarth replicas & to be honest if i had a genuine car sitting out in my garage i would probably agree with you BUT when you dont have one a replica is the only option..
And i know my replica will not be to everyones taste as it will basically be a visual replica only, with full tarmac kit , proper wheels , rear disc's & an engine robbed from a strada 130. The interior will be more standard road car with series 1 dash than rally interior, but every panel will be fitted & lined up 100% which is what i want in a replica ...
  that's my attempt at standing up for us replica lads 

 Dont think there will ever be a proper answer to the replica  YES / NO   debate ,, but isn't it great that we all love these cars & try to keep them alive & on the roads.. 

[Tas131]

Nowadays every 2 door 131 is slaughtered to be converted in a spin-off.

Yep, couldn't agree more. To see a very rare car converted to a wrecklica is tragic. I can understand if the body was rotten etc. But to take to a perfectly good car with an angle grinder is blasphemy. I've seen converted cars at display days and race meetings, they're only of mild interest to me, it it was a bog stock original 2 door, I'd be all over it like blowflies on a turd!

[TOAD]

May I have my three peneth here,

   You should also consider, that many of these standard cars would not survive if people didn't have the interest in making them into anything further. There is no way so many of these cars would be restored from such bad wrecks if it weren't for the fact there is a history worth emulating.

  There will always be standard cars around unless people sell them on for a pound or two, and forget were there going to be taken. Take me for example, I would tell one storey and do another if I felt it got me the car I wanted, would I cut up a restored car, and good example absolutely NOT, been there, standing with a jig saw and marker pen in front of a gleaming rear wing to be cut,   couldn't do it, sold it at a loss rather than cut it.  It's  up to us to keep them going, standard and modified, its the people chopping them to make money that need a slap, hoarders, not people that just want to make there own for use copy.


  Sorry, can't stand hoarders, no one needs five of the same car.

      Roger.........


P.S  Nice but wouldn't want an Abarth, we can build faster 131 these days without having to be worried about knocking a corner off a genuine Abarth.

[mirafiori76]

  Sorry, can't stand hoarders, no one need five of the same car.

      Roger.........


Roger? It is you who is building himself a second TOAD, aren't you? What do you drive as a daily use car?

I have my 1600 CL for daily use. I have my Racing for fun and driving on sunny days...even though they are scarse her in Holland  And last, my Abarth to be restored, still.
Would you consider me a hoarder?

[Thotos]

The Greeks say "Ο καθένας με τον πόνο του" which doesn't translate well but it's close to the English expression "to each his own" which according to Wiktionary means Every person is entitled to his or her personal preferences and tastes. And I think that's right! It's up to the individual to do with their car and money what they wish. There will always be 2-door standard Racings/Sports because there are a lot of people out there, me included, who will never convert their cars to replicas. Having said that, I'd love to have a nice replica. In fact I'd prefer to have a good replica to a real Group 4 car as I'd be scared to use a real car (plus I can't afford one  ) while I'd get a lot more pleasure out of a replica  

[williefiat]

Hi All.
Mike again has started a good Topic i would also like a genuine Abarth but afraid funds will not allow .In
my opinion i have quiet a nice looking Replica which i bought off Dave in 2006 only bad comment i get off
people is the hole in the Roof .Mike i also drive a 131 as one of my daily drivers a 2 litre 1979.Roger was
saying he can,t figure why People hoard cars well there are other people like me who suffer like me with a
form of OCD SO I CANT STOP until i get my Sport next year Plus a good 4 Door Supermirafiori 1983 then i
hope to stop ;)If i don,t stop my Wife will put me in the Garage with my best Ladies .Hope my Comments
will not offend anyone just my Two Pence Worth.While i am here may i wish Everyone here a very Happy
Christmas.
  Willie. 
   

[daverwd]

in the intrest of keeping your wife happy i will now offer to buy back the white replica from you willie..

[TOAD]

  Sorry, can't stand hoarders, no one need five of the same car.

      Roger.........


Roger? It is you who is building himself a second TOAD, aren't you? What do you drive as a daily use car?

I have my 1600 CL for daily use. I have my Racing for fun and driving on sunny days...even though they are scarse her in Holland  And last, my Abarth to be restored, still.
Would you consider me a hoarder?

No problems with me;

firstly;  the second and Little Toad is owned by me but is for, and will be racing by my Son Douglas.

Secondly; My Daily driver a Thema 16VT original bought because there were  no 131 around for me at the time. But as I have been looking for, and at this time the orange one on Ebay, I may get myself a daily driver yet again. Having spent most of my driving life in a 131 I am 50+ I think I will consider I've put my time in as a 131 daily driver.

Thirdly: You have a Rep, for nice days, understandable,  you have a CL for daily, again understandable and makes sense, and you are doing everyone a service by intending to restore an Abarth, so how does this fit in with Hoarders and people that build reps just to sell?

I am obliged to you for giving me the opportunity of making this clear, as we will all meet at some point, and there's no point in having tensions. 

And to be honest, I will forget most if not all of these names and tags unless some one reminds me at the time, so as always I have taken no offence, and it would seem nether should you 

  Regards

       Roger......


P.S  I did try to offload a ton of usable second hand parts to any one that wanted to come and get them, no one did so it had to go in the Tip, what a wast.  Only have parts to build one 131 now to replace my Thema (Badger).

[TOAD]

Hi All.
Mike again has started a good Topic i would also like a genuine Abarth but afraid funds will not allow .In
my opinion i have quiet a nice looking Replica which i bought off Dave in 2006 only bad comment i get off
people is the hole in the Roof .Mike i also drive a 131 as one of my daily drivers a 2 litre 1979.Roger was
saying he can,t figure why People hoard cars well there are other people like me who suffer like me with a
form of OCD SO I CANT STOP until i get my Sport next year Plus a good 4 Door Supermirafiori 1983 then i
hope to stop ;)If i don,t stop my Wife will put me in the Garage with my best Ladies .Hope my Comments
will not offend anyone just my Two Pence Worth.While i am here may i wish Everyone here a very Happy
Christmas.
  Willie. 
   

Hi Willie,

   OCD is one thing, but people that collect cars just to chap good cars into Reps, and people that hoard them to make money on them in years to come when there will be even fewer parts to keep them going, is I feel selfish.

Are you doing ether of these ?    I have no idea and don't need to know.

At the moment people can just about afford these cars, in ten years what will we see,  ?10.000 for a wreck and ?25.000 plus for a running car, never mind the Abarth's

Imagine,   The only 131 owner will have to be very rich, not a car for the common man.  Very sad.

   Both of my cars required chassis work, and no one was biding on Little Toad when I bought, so no one wanted it when I bought it, Big T was bough from three up in a brackets yards twenty or thirty years ago.


  Again, that's just my opinion, just so we know were we stand. 

       Roger......

[Robert]

Being the owner of one heavily modified standard 2door 131, I may add my two pence to this discussion  

First thing on my mind: a standard 2door car, be it 1st or 2nd series, is IMHO one of the dullest cars Fiat ever produced. However, it takes just small (and non-permanent) modifications to turn it into something sexy:

• Like with girls, start with shoes   replace the Birkenstocks for Jimmy Choo, i.e. the dull standard wheels for 13" or 14" clover wheels or Cromodoras with wide tires (and you do not need power steering for 205/60-13 tires, I can assure you)
• replace the front grill for a 1st series Special or a Sport grill
• get a front and a rear Series 2 bumper
• get a front and a boot spoiler
• do an engine upgrade to a TC engine

and voil?, you have a decent caf? racer!



Converting a 2door into a wannabe Abarth, however, is like wearing a fake Rolex: you might impress your neighbor, but the pros will sneer at you. Either you do the job right and make a full conversion, or you go down another road - like I did. If the "Ineptitude" were not that rotten, I would have stayed with her modifications as described above. And with her rotten quarter panels, it would have been an easy job to convert her into just another wrecklica. However, my inspiration was the South African 131 Racing, which looks quite standard, but is more the wolf in sheep's clothing (whereas an Abarth lookalike is just a sheep in wolf's clothing  ).




Another downside: everytime you enter your wannabe Abarth and start the engine, you will be reminded it's not the real thing. It's a fake, like the above mentioned Rolex. It will not make you happy deep inside - because there's something missing. So IMHO there's only one thing: Don't go with the crowd. Find your own way. Do either the complete job or build something completely different, not the Abarth lookalike #3251.

[Thotos]

like wearing a fake Rolex: you might impress your neighbor, but the pros will sneer at you.

I have (and sometimes wear) a fake Rolex   It's a good fake (automatic movement and not quartz) and I don't give a monkey's kahoonas about the pros, they can sneer as much as they like   As I said above, I'll probably never afford a real 131 Abarth and even if I did I'd be scared to drive it so I'd be happy with a good replica    My good replica Rolex was a present so would someone like to give me a present of a good Abarth replica?  

[TOAD]

Exactly Theo, and you don't have to worry about getting it pinched when your out, and I mean the watch now.


I just though, if I ever get offered an Abarth, I'll offer it to you,  there not for me, to slow even in Gp4 trim

 Roger.........

[Thotos]

Thank you Roger 

I was going to add before, that modern technology and developments can make an Abarth replica much better than the original with more power, better suspension, better steering etc but I thought that might start a whole new discussion.....

[TOAD]

Exactly my point also,

  Suppose it depends weather the driver is a driver, or a look at me type,  personally I'll have it in primer with a 16vt under the bonnet