Timed on #1 or #4 cyl?

[Thotos]

Theo, see the pic of the pedal that I put up 10 posts back.

Doh!  of course!  
Yes, that makes sense. The pedal spring is probably there to take up the slack in the cable. So if there's no pedal stop, what's stopping you from adjusting the cable correctly since you said you don't mind having a high clutch pedal?

[keith m 131]

To get the pedal up say level with the brake pedal then I need to use up all the adjustment available. The problem arises because the pedal hits the floor before I get enough clutch to be able to select gears smoothly. So I need to get the clutch to work before it hits the floor and becaues I have used all the adjustment to pull the cable tight the release bearing is in constant contact with the pressure plate fingers.

Does that make sense? I have attached a photo it may explain whats happening, The pedal is at that height to work but the cable is pulled so tight that the bearing in in contact with the fingers and I have no freeplay. You can see that the floor restricts the pedal movement. The wasnt a problem for the moggy pedals because they were floor mounted and pushed down into the floor.

The maroon car is mine and the other has been done by someone else

keith

[Thotos]

Sorry Keith, I'm confused now    Since there's no stop on the clutch pedal, why does it not come up higher until the bearing is clear of the pressure plate springs? What's stopping the actuator from releasing fully and pulling the clutch pedal higher?

[keith m 131]

Welcome to the confused club.

As you said earlier the spring and the adjustment at the actuator arm is what keeps the pedal set at an acceptable height off the floor.

I can get the pedal higher but I would have to shorten the inner cable even further by adding spacers/packers at the bulkhead and or at the actuator arm but that will pull the actuator arm closer to the release bearing and thats no good. My problem is that i cannot achieve any acceptable free play in the pedal.

Thats why at the beginning I asked if my problem was to do with the cable lentgh or lack of pedal travel or both.

Keith

[Thotos]

My problem is that i cannot achieve any acceptable free play in the pedal.

But now I don't understand why  If you move the actuator arm towards the back of the car, the bearing moves away from the pressure plate and the pedal rises. Without a stop on the pedal, what's stopping the actuator arm from moving back far enough to fully release the clutch?

[keith m 131]

It must be the length of the cable. If I slacken off the cable to enable the actuator arm to move towards the back of the car then the pedal drops and i cant engage any gears.

The cable I am using is approx 1650mm long, its the one that was on my supermirafiori, it is in good condition so I reused it. I bought a new replacement as a spare and that is the same size. Is there only one size? but Theo you say that cables should go round the front of the engine but mine wouldnt, thats why I have had to route it the way I have.

I reused the fiat pedal box with the servo bolted to it through the bulhead, so that is identical to the fiat so far, the cable then runs above the master cyclinder to the end of the brake pipes, it than goes down next to the alternator and crosses under the sump and then the outer cable fits into the bell housing and the inner cable fits through the actuator arm

keith  

[Thotos]

It must be the length of the cable. If I slacken off the cable to enable the actuator arm to move towards the back of the car then the pedal drops and i cant engage any gears.

That's not right. When you slacken off the cable and the pedal drops, can you manually move the actuator arm further back and lift the pedal? If so, then I think you're right and the problem is cable length; either the inner cable is too long or the outer cable is too short. That's why both inner and outer cables are adjustable because it's the difference between the two that's important and not the overall cable length. Adjust the outer cable at the bulkhead so the outer cable is the longest it can be (maximum thread showing). Then adjust the cable at the actuator arm to get about 10mm freeplay and see where the pedal is. If it's lower than the brake pedal, you'll have to extend the outer cable. Probably the easiest way to do this is weld a big nut on the bulkhead engine-side where the cable goes through so effectively increasing the length of the outer cable.

but Theo you say that cables should go round the front of the engine but mine wouldnt, thats why I have had to route it the way I have.

Yes mine goes round the front of the engine but I've seen all kinds of ways of routing the clutch cable. I think mine is a 132 cable which is longer. But it doesn't really matter how long the cable is and which way it's routed, it's only the difference between inner and outer cable that's important.

[keith m 131]

Good morning Theo, another day, another brain storming session.

This morning I will re-instate the pedal hook but I will fit it a little higher, that can only help.

In reply to your last post, looking back at the problem I started with I think that the cable is too short, now whether its a problem with the inner or outer, well Im not sure.

Previously If I set the height ( block of wood underneath) of the pedal to say match the brake pedal then I had to pull the actuator arm forward to enable me to get the threaded cable end through the arm and get the lock nut on. When I removed the block of wood the pedal would drop approx half the distance to the floor. In this position I could not engage any gears so I would have to use both the adjustors to get the clutch to work but having to do this resulted in the release bearing being in constant contact with the pressure plate fingers, no freeplay.

As I said this morning I will put it back and set it up as you recommend and let you know my findings.

keith

[keith m 131]

Update..

Hi Theo

I put the clutch cable eye hook back to the original vertical position although I have raised it 10mm higher, thats the max I could go because the sleeve that slides through the bulkhead would interfere with the cable and cause chaffing.

I have taken a number of photos showing the different positions that I have tried the cable in regarding adjustment.

The pics are in groups of 3 showing the different positions of the pedal, the bulkhead adjuster and the actuator arm. In the first three groups the release bearing is in contact with the pressure plate

I have to do a number or posts for this because it is not possible to upload more that 4 pics in one post.

[keith m 131]

Update 2

[keith m 131]

Update 3

[mirafiori76]

Wouldn't it have been easier to build yourself a 131 around that gearbox?

[keith m 131]

Update 4

The first pic here shows a measurement of the position of the actuator arm in relation to the group of photo's in updat 3
The second pic show the actuator arm pulled back as far as it will go and in this position the release bearing is clear of the pressure plate bu 10-12mm. The similar dimension on the second isnt shown but is 55mm.

Is the problem being caused by the inner cable being too short?

keith

[keith m 131]

Possibly Mirafiori, What would we do without sarcasm. LOL

Anyone can go out and buy a car but to restore a wreck and modify it to accept the running gear from another car, well thats rewarding enough for me.

When this is running right I will have the benefit of a hybrid made up of two of my favourite cars.

Keith

[Tas131]

You need about 1mm clearance between the throwout bearing and the pressure plate diaphragm spring. When adjusted like that, how far does the gearbox lever move when the pedal is fully depressed. Can you get a photo more inside the box, showing the thrust bearing on the diaphragm spring? If the diaphragm fingers sit flat, the clutch is probably OK, if they bend out towards the gearbox, the clutch plate is worn and may be part of your problem.